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Spinner Sage
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You see the same thing everyday; players asking how they can improve and other people giving their "best" guess as to how. Community veterans often have a scripted response or have some fun with these questions, because years of giving thoughtful responses to the same question only to watch that person go farm pp and ignore the advice has worn down their patience. So it's a "play more" that the advice seeker can read into as little or as much as they like. It's a cycle that's destined to repeat itself forever - death and rebirth.

Observing this is funny in the same way watching a trashfire burn chemical colors into the local neighborhood's air is pretty, but I think it's worth asking why the same topics repeat themselves like this so often. As someone who has been in several other game communities, osu!'s stood out as alien at first for its dual nature. I felt that many people took their improvement very seriously but at the same time nothing is sacred enough to them not to be memed into the ground and disrespected because it's just a stupid, shitty game. Not even the god Cookiezi that so many pray to every night is safe from memes.

I think this contradiction in ideals comes from conflicting messages in the community.

On one hand, there is a manic obsession and love for acquiring skill which is fed by the never ending stream of top plays and the gods attached to them. The top level of osu! gameplay is very obviously glamorous in a way that other games aren't, and many newcomers are seduced into the game by top plays that inspire them to reach that level. Unlike most competitive games, which are likely entered through some concept of "fun" (see Super Smash Bros and Moba games with friends), osu's new players feed off the high of the most recent legendary plays and want to achieve that feeling themselves. What's more... It's just circles... one at at time. It should be very easy, no? At the very least, it's easy to conceive that anyone could maybe do it, given enough playtime. The giant, ever-present rank numbers glued to your name, among other things, contributes as well.

On the other hand, osu is a solo rhythm video game. To call it competitive and to see people obsessed with improvement seems backwards on a fundamental level. Guitar hero is a game played casually by millions, and it lends itself to exactly that kind of casual play. You can play as easy of songs as you want, play with no fail, or just pass the guitar to a friend that's actually good at the game. The reason that 5 year old who perfected Through the Fire and Flames on expert is so impressive is because who the hell puts this much time into guitar hero? At this point people are used to asian parents teaching their toddlers to play Rhapsody in Blue on the clarinet or Mozart on the violin before they can form complete sentences, but the idea that anyone would put so much time into something that's a mere mockery of actual music is novel and funny to the average person

It's not that it takes much less skill to become incredibly skilled in guitar hero over a classical instrument, but instruments have centuries of culture and history, as well as the fact that they take much more discipline to play (no built in video gamey reward systems), going for them in regards to being respected by the general public.

Compared to guitar hero, osu! is even less respected and known. It's also filled with anime, which makes it even lower in the public's eye (although anime is becoming less of an "outsider thing", it still very much IS). I think, in such dark corners of society and the internet, there is an element of hazing and mocking that comes with asking how to get better. "What are you even doing here? Shouldn't you be doing something else? Idk, play more. Just click the circles, man, nobody cares if you get any good at this filthy anime game anyway". All things that someone who plays the game will tell another in the community.






This has been an attempt to craft an explanation of why the osu! culture is in such a way. I left out a lot of things, but I honestly find this community very interesting, and so I've ranted about it here. I'll probably do this again after another 100 hours in this game.
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Whistle Blower
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I felt that many people took their improvement very seriously but at the same time nothing is sacred enough to them not to be memed into the ground and disrespected because it's just a stupid, shitty game.

I don't understand how this is unique to osu!. It is pretty normal to shit on and make fun of games you enjoy. It is much easier to find flaws in things that you are passionate about.

Quote:
Unlike most competitive games, which are likely entered through some concept of "fun" (see Super Smash Bros and Moba games with friends), osu's new players feed off the high of the most recent legendary plays and want to achieve that feeling themselves.

Sure, a lot of players start playing because they saw some super high level play. However, those players usually stop playing after a few hours unless they actually find it "fun" to play. New players often quickly realize that it requires a shitton of effort and dedication to reach the level of top players and without anything other than the "high" of cool plays to keep them going, they will probably just quit playing.

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On the other hand, osu is a solo rhythm video game. To call it competitive and to see people obsessed with improvement seems backwards on a fundamental level

Why? Golf can be competitive. Golf is a solo sport. It is also possible to obsess about improving at something without it being competitive.

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I think, in such dark corners of society and the internet, there is an element of hazing and mocking that comes with asking how to get better. "What are you even doing here? Shouldn't you be doing something else? Idk, play more. Just click the circles, man, nobody cares if you get any good at this filthy anime game anyway". All things that someone who plays the game will tell another in the community.

You are putting waaaay too much interpretation into "play more". Playing more is the most important thing you can do if you want to get better. There is of course much more nuance to just playing more, but too many new players are obsessed with "a secret method to improve without much effort" and spends all their time asking people HOW to improve instead of playing. I believe that "play more" is a response used kinda mockingly to say "Hey, you are asking way too many unnecessary questions without actually putting effort into actually playing the game"


You have some interesting view on the osu! culture, but I disagree with you on many points. I think you are looking a bit too much into it and coming up with explanations which are not really supported with good arguments
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Rhythm Incarnate
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I have a feeling this is the impression someone would get if they only saw the G&R subforum and occasional comments relating to osu in a different rhythm gaming community.
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Rhythm Incarnate
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osu! is very much a competitive game within its community. I doubt many people would actually play for the pleasure of clicking circles alone.
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Spinner Sage
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You have some interesting view on the osu! culture, but I disagree with you on many points. I think you are looking a bit too much into it and coming up with explanations which are not really supported with good arguments[/quote]

You're probably right. Most of this is based on my own personal feelings and then an explanation that I came up with. My arguments could be better.
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Spinner Sage
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abraker wrote:
I have a feeling this is the impression someone would get if they only saw the G&R subforum and occasional comments relating to osu in a different rhythm gaming community.


I love this game and community, but for whatever reason the community can feel alien to me. Possibly because I've never made another friend from osu!... regardless, I still have an outsider perspective.
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Spinner Sage
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I would like to respond to some of your points though.

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I don't understand how this is unique to osu!. It is pretty normal to shit on and make fun of games you enjoy. It is much easier to find flaws in things that you are passionate about.


I think it's an issue of degrees and osu! seems to hate on itself more than other communities from my perspective. Higher occurrences of people telling others to quit the game and get out while they can, etc. I've been in the League Community and it's the same there with people hating on the state of the game, game mechanics and especially hating on Riot, who creates the game, but in osu! it feels like there is more of a disdain. This could be a matter of perspective, though.

Quote:
Sure, a lot of players start playing because they saw some super high level play. However, those players usually stop playing after a few hours unless they actually find it "fun" to play. New players often quickly realize that it requires a shitton of effort and dedication to reach the level of top players and without anything other than the "high" of cool plays to keep them going, they will probably just quit playing.


They definitely need to find it fun, but I think there are multiple motivations that go into playing the game. You can have a casual and competitive player that both find the game fun, but one of them is also driven by competition IN ADDITION to fun. You see this in all kinds of games.

Quote:
Why? Golf can be competitive. Golf is a solo sport. It is also possible to obsess about improving at something without it being competitive.
\

Honestly, many people still don't understand the appeal of something like golf because it's so solitary. I think there are many people that could never really understand the simple appeal of seeing yourself improve (understand in the sense that they themselves don't care about it) at a game that has no other relevance in their lives.

In osu! the level of "solo" is even more intense. In bowling or golf you are alone, but at the highest level you are often in a game with someone else. In osu! you are always alone even when making your greatest plays. Your "opponent" could be asleep.

I'm a little off base with how I described this one. What I mean is that there is a perception that people taking the game seriously are misguided or strange.

Quote:
You are putting waaaay too much interpretation into "play more". Playing more is the most important thing you can do if you want to get better. There is of course much more nuance to just playing more, but too many new players are obsessed with "a secret method to improve without much effort" and spends all their time asking people HOW to improve instead of playing. I believe that "play more" is a response used kinda mockingly to say "Hey, you are asking way too many unnecessary questions without actually putting effort into actually playing the game"
:P

You have some interesting view on the osu! culture, but I disagree with you on many points. I think you are looking a bit too much into it and coming up with explanations which are not really supported with good arguments


I agree that in individual cases it is used jokingly, but I think as a whole it persists because of how people view this game (as having little depth and that there isn't anything to be discussed).
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