2016-03-13 16:32 Shiirn: what's your plan for today, theeeeen
2016-03-13 16:33 Bonsai: not modding anything
2016-03-13 16:33 Bonsai: ~~~
2016-03-13 16:33 Shiirn: whaha
2016-03-13 16:33 Shiirn: so uhhh
2016-03-13 16:34 Shiirn: f'real tho can i get a yukari check in a few days or is that promoting "omg speedrank" too much for ya
2016-03-13 16:34 Bonsai: I don't even know who Yukari is
2016-03-13 16:34 Shiirn: the map i uploaded 2 days ago
2016-03-13 16:35 Bonsai: lol
2016-03-13 16:35 Shiirn: but is like, pretty much done.
2016-03-13 16:35 Shiirn: lol
2016-03-13 16:37 Shiirn: idk man i mapped it very safe
2016-03-13 16:37 Shiirn: no gimmick
2016-03-13 16:37 Bonsai: but I'm not generally going to nominate everything I feel is safe, I wanna nominate stuff I like
2016-03-13 16:38 Shiirn: i understand the sentiment, but whether it's safe or not shouldnt be completely correlated to whether you like it or not
2016-03-13 16:38 Bonsai: I know?
2016-03-13 16:38 Bonsai: that's what I'm saying ^^
2016-03-13 16:38 Shiirn: oh
2016-03-13 16:38 Shiirn: im silly then
2016-03-13 16:39 Bonsai: I am very confused by the intro
2016-03-13 16:39 Bonsai: like, what is the focus on
2016-03-13 16:39 Shiirn: vocal/piano
2016-03-13 16:39 Bonsai: seems like you're mapping everything at the same time and that seems way too dense for me
2016-03-13 16:39 Shiirn: hm
2016-03-13 16:39 Shiirn: the intro is fairly dense vocal and piano wise, that's why the spacing is fairly low
2016-03-13 16:39 Bonsai: also stuff like 00:06:728 (4) -
2016-03-13 16:39 Bonsai: that's neither of them
2016-03-13 16:39 Bonsai: just base rhythm
2016-03-13 16:40 Bonsai: oih it is pioano whoops
2016-03-13 16:40 Shiirn: that has a piano hit on top of drum tho
2016-03-13 16:40 Shiirn: ACTION taps
2016-03-13 16:40 Bonsai: but like not the main piano-melody hihi
2016-03-13 16:40 Shiirn: mmm
2016-03-13 16:41 Shiirn: see the way i think about mapping this kind of music (intro piano/soft voice/etc) is that its more important to have a calm rhythm that fits the music
2016-03-13 16:41 Bonsai: like, I just don't see a focus bc kinda everything is emphasized
2016-03-13 16:41 Shiirn: it's all "emphasized" but it's all weak
2016-03-13 16:41 Bonsai: but that rhythm is not calm at all o:
2016-03-13 16:42 Shiirn: the spacing is very tiny compared to the rest of the map
2016-03-13 16:42 Shiirn: that's the main difference
2016-03-13 16:42 Shiirn: and it expands to having a few jumps as the intro nears ending
2016-03-13 16:43 Shiirn: i have never seen any playtester break at all ever on the intro it's like ~3* even if it's "dense"
2016-03-13 16:44 Bonsai: but imo it still seems very stressful when rhythms that mostly add on top of each other are constantly mapped without breaks, and mainly this adding to each other instead of overlapping is imo what causes it to feel double as dense as the single aspects feel
2016-03-13 16:45 Bonsai: and I know it's not spaced much but tapping so much is still something
2016-03-13 16:46 Bonsai: and like the piano at 00:01:594 - is really quiet
2016-03-13 16:46 Shiirn: I mean, you have to take into account that the intro itself is musically quite dense - it even has drum kicks, unusual for a "piano and vocals" intro
2016-03-13 16:46 Bonsai: I know, it's rhythmically dense, but the feel is still calm
2016-03-13 16:46 Bonsai: and that doesn't correspons nicely imo
2016-03-13 16:47 Shiirn: mm
2016-03-13 16:47 Shiirn: you know this is the first time anyone's ever told me that I mapped an intro sequence too heavily. I don't see what I can really do here without remapping most of it and sticking to 1/1 and some 1/2 sliders, but taht doesn't fit the song itself
2016-03-13 16:49 Shiirn: basically the intro has three seperate sections, each one starting with a bit of a xylophone trill (00:16:354 (1,2,3,4,5) - these)
2016-03-13 16:49 Shiirn: before going straight into piano/vocals with drum kicks
2016-03-13 16:49 Bonsai: (do those sections differ in any way? why are you bringing that up ^^)
2016-03-13 16:49 Shiirn: they di, actually
2016-03-13 16:50 Shiirn: which is why 00:23:252 (2,3,4) - there's a triple here
2016-03-13 16:50 Shiirn: im sying that the densest part of each section is the initial trill before it goes into 1/1 and 1/2 like i said i'd need to do
2016-03-13 16:50 Shiirn: so short of ignoring the xylophone or w/e instrument that is and making that 1/1 and 1/2 as well idk
2016-03-13 16:51 Bonsai: well the trills don't happen until the third sectin so that doesn't make much sense ^^
2016-03-13 16:51 Bonsai: also I think you missed one at 00:28:466
2016-03-13 16:51 Bonsai: 00:28:466 -
2016-03-13 16:51 Bonsai: hm
2016-03-13 16:52 Bonsai: well, to me it seems like mostly ignoring the piano would solve a lot
2016-03-13 16:52 Bonsai: I know that you prolly donÄt wanna do that
2016-03-13 16:52 Shiirn: i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-iGNORE THE PIANO
2016-03-13 16:52 Shiirn: ACTION gasps
2016-03-13 16:52 Bonsai: lol
2016-03-13 16:52 Shiirn: ACTION throws salt
2016-03-13 16:52 Bonsai: nuuuuu salz is extremely damaging to me ;_;
2016-03-13 16:52 Bonsai: *salt
2016-03-13 16:53 Bonsai: wow, z is next to t and makes it german, nice
2016-03-13 16:53 Shiirn: [suddenly german]
2016-03-13 16:53 Bonsai: something completely different that I dislike
2016-03-13 16:53 Shiirn: [Suddenly German], the new hit comedy where an american is deported to the most german german family!
2016-03-13 16:53 Shiirn: in germany!
2016-03-13 16:54 Shiirn: *laugh track*
2016-03-13 16:54 Shiirn: ok joke over
2016-03-13 16:54 Bonsai: is how 00:44:589 (1,2,3) - gets smaller towards 00:47:156 (1,2,3) - and I guess that's bc you feel like lower pitch of the piano is directly lower intensity but imo that's not corresponding at all, so to me that seems kinda weird bc the overall song intensity stays the same but it just gets smaller everytime
2016-03-13 16:55 Bonsai: wtf
2016-03-13 16:55 Shiirn: hm
2016-03-13 16:55 Shiirn: alright modifying
2016-03-13 16:56 Bonsai: and then you start pairing them up like at 00:57:423 (1,2,3) - which is weird too imo
2016-03-13 16:56 Bonsai: and then boom 00:58:707 (1,2) - is big af
2016-03-13 16:56 Bonsai: ok not really but kinda big
2016-03-13 16:56 Shiirn: uhhh
2016-03-13 16:56 Shiirn: lol
2016-03-13 16:56 Shiirn: well
2016-03-13 16:56 Shiirn: as a straight 1/2 section that is circlecircleslider over and over and over
2016-03-13 16:57 Shiirn: the question for the player is far less "what is the rhythm" as is "where is the next note"
2016-03-13 16:57 Bonsai: yeah but why does it differ so much?
2016-03-13 16:57 Bonsai: I'm scared of saying the word but to me it seems rather inconsistent
2016-03-13 16:57 Bonsai: ACTION runs
2016-03-13 16:57 Shiirn: and at that point, small inconsistencies in spacing don't hurt anything, and the difference isnt that huge
2016-03-13 16:58 Bonsai: ok yeah maybe I should play it how about that
2016-03-13 16:58 Shiirn: it can be said that the second big jump is because it's a measure that has a change to that "circlecircleslider"
2016-03-13 16:58 Shiirn: a sudden change in consistent spacing can "wake the player back up" if that makes any amount of sense
2016-03-13 16:58 Shiirn: im doing another mod so i cant watch e.e
2016-03-13 16:58 Bonsai: ye bc the player falls asleep when the spacing gets smaller each time HAHAHAHAHAH ahum
2016-03-13 17:01 Shiirn: something something "omg the rock section is weaker than the intro"
2016-03-13 17:01 Shiirn: people can suck dicks
2016-03-13 17:04 Bonsai: also 00:59:990 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1,2) - I dislike that too because there is nothing really being added to the song or more inense in that way, the drums have double the kicks here but the kicks are not more intense, so making the spacing higher than every single kick has been so far seems really unnatural
2016-03-13 17:05 Bonsai: and like, to add more reason to why I feel it's inconsistent, 00:55:498 (3,4,5) - the kick kinda doesn't get emphasized at all here and then the overall spacing gets lower but boom 00:57:423 (1,2) - is extremely harsh flow + bigger spacing
2016-03-13 17:05 Shiirn: iv'e fixed that second one
2016-03-13 17:05 Shiirn: its just not updated
2016-03-13 17:05 Shiirn: and the first one sure let's fix it
2016-03-13 17:06 Shiirn: i argue my poitns but i'm not a hardheaded, irrational fucker like yales, i'll fix stuff that's wrong
2016-03-13 17:06 Shiirn: and as far as the 1,2,1,2 jumps go, it's more about the intensity of the music than anything else
2016-03-13 17:07 Shiirn: the music is a script - the map is the performance. a bit of embellishment is fine and it's the same pattern (albeit smaller) than the one used in the last kiais
2016-03-13 17:07 Bonsai: nad like 01:02:396 (1,2) - and 01:03:198 (3,4) - in comparison to 01:03:840 (1,2) - and 01:04:482 (3,4) -
2016-03-13 17:08 Shiirn: I'll move 3 to be more up and to the left while blanketting the 1
2016-03-13 17:08 Shiirn: that fixes up that area, nah?
2016-03-13 17:08 Shiirn: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4713510 i am so bad at blankets
2016-03-13 17:10 Bonsai: yeah but I'd analyse more clearly why you feel that the music is getting more intense, it's bc the kicks are doubled, so I'd expect double the jumps or w/e, but you just put bigger jumps there than you mostly got for the rest of that section, like, the only jumps with more than three followpoints visible are always starting from slidertails, so not nearly as intense than a fully clickable jump of the same spacing
2016-03-13 17:10 Bonsai: yes you are lol, wait a sec
2016-03-13 17:10 Bonsai: 00:21:487 (1,2,3) - lol
2016-03-13 17:10 Bonsai: is that supposed to be symmetric or smth or not lol
2016-03-13 17:10 Shiirn: I FIXED IT
2016-03-13 17:10 Shiirn: I THINK
2016-03-13 17:10 Shiirn: PLS
2016-03-13 17:11 Shiirn: like
2016-03-13 17:11 Bonsai: 00:23:412 (4,1) - the cringe
2016-03-13 17:11 Shiirn: one of my friends who has way better eyesight for this shit than me
2016-03-13 17:11 Shiirn: agreed to go over the entire map and fix all the blankets for me
2016-03-13 17:11 Bonsai: lol
2016-03-13 17:11 Shiirn: ;_;
2016-03-13 17:11 Shiirn: bully
2016-03-13 17:11 Shiirn: like i legit cannot see these
2016-03-13 17:11 Shiirn: most of the time the screen's blurry anyway lol
2016-03-13 17:11 Bonsai: there's actually a lot of stuff that makes it seem aesthetically chaotic, like 00:30:792 (2,3,4) - wao
2016-03-13 17:13 Bonsai: also I find it very surprising to introduce 00:34:803 (4,5,6) - when the tail of 4 is already one of those drum-1/4s and the jump seems really out of nowhere bc it doesn't correlate much to it imo
2016-03-13 17:13 Bonsai: also something that makes everything aesthetically chaotic to me is that you always use different sliders
2016-03-13 17:13 Shiirn: the alternative is having 4 be a 1/4 slier and 5,6 getting a nice beat on the start to make it a triple
2016-03-13 17:13 Shiirn: which... would probably play better actually
2016-03-13 17:13 Shiirn: ACTION fiddles
2016-03-13 17:13 Bonsai: lol
2016-03-13 17:14 Bonsai: about stuff like that I feel like making the tail and the two following objects be spaced the same forced the player to have steady movement from start to finish, making them emphasized more evenly
2016-03-13 17:14 Shiirn: what's wrong with different sliders T_T
2016-03-13 17:14 Bonsai: wanna see an example of what I mean? bc I did that very clearly in my most recvent map that I'm very proud of heh
2016-03-13 17:14 Bonsai: that it looks unsteady
2016-03-13 17:15 Shiirn: y6ou know
2016-03-13 17:15 Shiirn: 90% of complaints i get about my sliders
2016-03-13 17:15 Shiirn: is that
2016-03-13 17:15 Shiirn: well
2016-03-13 17:15 Shiirn: 90% is that the blankets suck
2016-03-13 17:15 Shiirn: 90% of the remaining 10% is that
2016-03-13 17:15 Shiirn: they all look the same
2016-03-13 17:16 Bonsai: lol
2016-03-13 17:16 Bonsai: why is 01:08:172 (4,5) - spaced?
2016-03-13 17:17 Shiirn: uhhh, because i felt like it t b h, but if asked for justification
2016-03-13 17:17 Shiirn: ACTION moves them
2016-03-13 17:17 Bonsai: lol
2016-03-13 17:17 Shiirn: bear in mind
2016-03-13 17:18 Bonsai: see, I'm just bringing the most clear issues I have here but I feel like those issues occur in smaller instances a lot throughout the whole map
2016-03-13 17:18 Shiirn: i come from the same era as ztrot, where people were nowhere near as nazi
2016-03-13 17:18 Bonsai: heh
2016-03-13 17:18 Shiirn: so i'm not as nazi on MYSELF
2016-03-13 17:19 Shiirn: on the one hand, I like that there seems to be a lot more focus on making sure maps have less abject mistakes left in them by the mapper that can easily be fixed to little or no effort on anyone's part
2016-03-13 17:19 Bonsai: also I feel like 01:16:514 - not being mapped is meh bc there are clearly vocals there, so making the previous note a slider until there would be really cool
2016-03-13 17:20 Shiirn: but on the other hand I feel that if it is pushed too far you get maps that are basically forced to ALWAYS BE CONSISTENT WITH THE INSTRUMENTS/etc and mapping loses a bit of "soul", if that makes sense. interpretation is, in the end, an important part of mapping
2016-03-13 17:20 Shiirn: i didnt know how to make the vocal emphasis
2016-03-13 17:20 Shiirn: while going into the 1/1 piano
2016-03-13 17:20 Shiirn: t b h
2016-03-13 17:20 Bonsai: I know exactly what you mean and am kinda fighting with that problem myself
2016-03-13 17:21 Bonsai: like, spacings in Gero's or Glavenize's maps seem really random at a loooooot of places but they feel so good
2016-03-13 17:21 Bonsai: I hate that
2016-03-13 17:21 Shiirn: that's the big issue i will fully fight over for those 1,2,1,2,1,2 patterns
2016-03-13 17:21 Bonsai: I'm really conflicted about that ;_;
2016-03-13 17:21 Shiirn: galvenize basically created the concept of "#fuckspacing" that i picked up and refined for Solar
2016-03-13 17:21 Bonsai: lol
2016-03-13 17:21 Shiirn: between me and galvenize we basically created an entire mapping style for dnb that expanded into all other genres
2016-03-13 17:21 Bonsai: omg I hate Solar tbh
2016-03-13 17:21 Shiirn: wow
2016-03-13 17:21 Shiirn: ACTION throws salt
2016-03-13 17:22 Bonsai: like, suddenly making 1/4-jumps at the very end of the map, wtf
2016-03-13 17:22 Bonsai: 01:19:402 (2) - random offbeat ahoy
2016-03-13 17:22 Bonsai: 01:21:648 (6) - is cool but seems random when similar like 01:18:920 (5,1) - are not made offbeat imo
2016-03-13 17:22 Shiirn: swapped around
2016-03-13 17:23 Bonsai: yeah actually again I noticed while playing that 01:22:450 (3,4,5) - versus 01:23:573 (2,3,4,5) - just feels really random
2016-03-13 17:23 Shiirn: mm
2016-03-13 17:23 Bonsai: I just really have a lot of concerns about the inconsistency of emphasis tbh
2016-03-13 17:23 Shiirn: that's kind of mean to say, y'know
2016-03-13 17:24 Shiirn: calling it random implies that i didn't think about it at all
2016-03-13 17:24 Shiirn: also what's wrong with those two
2016-03-13 17:24 Shiirn: the vocals are on different parts
2016-03-13 17:24 Bonsai: I'm just saying how it feels to me bc I think the thing that matters is how the players experience the map, I don't care if you have the coolest reasonings behind stuff you do when it just doesn't convey to the player
2016-03-13 17:25 Shiirn: it's a guitar focus for click rhythm with vocals being emphasized when they're long breahs
2016-03-13 17:25 Bonsai: why is 01:23:733 (3,4) - so big
2016-03-13 17:25 Bonsai: that's mainly the thing
2016-03-13 17:25 Shiirn: moved around
2016-03-13 17:25 Shiirn: the thing is
2016-03-13 17:26 Shiirn: in your head its really easy to point out inconsistencies in terms of black and white and instrument vs vocals but when it gets right down to it it is down to what feels right as you're playing it
2016-03-13 17:26 Shiirn: things like that big spacing
2016-03-13 17:26 Shiirn: yeah its an oversight i'll fix that
2016-03-13 17:26 Bonsai: I just don't udnerstand why stuff like 01:24:375 (1,2,3) - is spaced when it seems like exactly the same to me in the music as all the other combos where it isn't spaced at all
2016-03-13 17:26 Shiirn: but when the vocals go over a big white tick and the guitar isn't there, i'll have a slider over it
2016-03-13 17:27 Shiirn: largely because 1/2 spacing is literally the first thing that can go fuck itself as far as NEEDING to be consistent goes
2016-03-13 17:27 Bonsai: yeah the slider is good but just inconsistent bc it isn't there at other instances where exactly the same happens
2016-03-13 17:27 Shiirn: and there aren't any other instances in the song where it happens so oh well
2016-03-13 17:27 Shiirn: chalk it up to the music
2016-03-13 17:28 Bonsai: is 01:18:920 (5,1) - not the same as 01:21:487 (5,6) - in the music?
2016-03-13 17:29 Shiirn: you're right, i wasn't dirctly comparing those two
2016-03-13 17:29 Bonsai: I just don't understand why you sometimes emphasize every single 1/2 of something and then sometimes don't even emphasize the 1/1s, like, 01:22:450 (3,4,5) - , the (5) doesn't get emphasized at all
2016-03-13 17:29 Shiirn: stupid fps counter
2016-03-13 17:29 Shiirn: also uhhh
2016-03-13 17:29 Shiirn: i can move around the 4,5
2016-03-13 17:29 Shiirn: like
2016-03-13 17:30 Shiirn: i know you're 'calm' but take a breath here
2016-03-13 17:30 Shiirn: i am a bad mapper
2016-03-13 17:30 Shiirn: i thrive off advice
2016-03-13 17:30 Bonsai: ö
2016-03-13 17:30 Shiirn: i dont notice my mistakes that easily and that's why i have such an effective mod process
2016-03-13 17:30 Shiirn: because i fix stuff
2016-03-13 17:30 Bonsai: yeah, but, as I said, I'm not pointing out every instance of the issues I have
2016-03-13 17:30 Shiirn: like that 3,4,5, i just moved 4 off to line up with 2,3, and moved 5 a bit to not be quite as jerky
2016-03-13 17:31 Bonsai: I am right now destroying your map completely bc I only make you change single things when they happen quite often I think
2016-03-13 17:31 Shiirn: of course but when it gets right down to it
2016-03-13 17:31 Shiirn: the map as it is
2016-03-13 17:31 Shiirn: is super playable and plenty neat, it just needs polish to varying degrees and honestly you're as nazi as irreversible except much less of a dick about it
2016-03-13 17:32 Bonsai: 'playable'
2016-03-13 17:32 Shiirn: you're literally the only person thus far that has considered it weird or having playability issues
2016-03-13 17:33 Bonsai: This is playable but it makes me enjoy it way less than I could bc I am thrown out of the full experience because while playing I notice that some things play way easier and others way harder when the intesnity is the same in the music
2016-03-13 17:33 Bonsai: defnite playability
2016-03-13 17:33 Shiirn: you are EXTREMELY specific and narrow in your view of modding, for better and for worse, i can see that just from knowing you all of four days
2016-03-13 17:33 Bonsai: as long as something is readable it's playable?
2016-03-13 17:34 Shiirn: it's fairly consistent in regards to beat pattern and object pattern consistency
2016-03-13 17:34 Bonsai: 01:26:621 (3,4,5) - is not readable btw lol, starting strams of the blue tick is ?? because it completely swallows the downbeat
2016-03-13 17:34 Shiirn: take a breath
2016-03-13 17:34 Bonsai: yeah, but spacing is a huge aspect, and flow
2016-03-13 17:34 Shiirn: i don't want our personal disagreements on what is important in a map lead me to getting another 'enemy' like irreversible
2016-03-13 17:34 Shiirn: and i don't see the problem in "starting" the stream on bluetick
2016-03-13 17:35 Bonsai: with flow I mean that 00:46:033 (2,3) - is ten times smoother to play than 00:58:226 (5,6) - and thus gives extremely different emphasis
2016-03-13 17:35 Shiirn: as the hold is already on the 1/2 slider the player should be starting on 4 with the alternate finger anyway
2016-03-13 17:35 Bonsai: yeah but the downbeat is not emphasized at all
2016-03-13 17:35 Bonsai: and ignoring the downbeat like that is highly unexpected
2016-03-13 17:35 Bonsai: I have had a lot of trouble playing your 1/4s all around the map
2016-03-13 17:35 Shiirn: then i'll change it to two circles, you have a point
2016-03-13 17:36 Bonsai: and I'm a full alternator
2016-03-13 17:36 Bonsai: +reading
2016-03-13 17:36 Bonsai: **
2016-03-13 17:36 Bonsai: *I had trouble reading
2016-03-13 17:36 Bonsai: is what I'm saying
2016-03-13 17:36 Bonsai: lol
2016-03-13 17:37 Bonsai: also 01:37:530 (2,3,4,5) - is super surprising
2016-03-13 17:37 Bonsai: and stuff like 01:40:097 (1,2) - being really small spacing that makes me think it's a 1/4-gap out of reflex
2016-03-13 17:38 Shiirn: what's wrong with 2345
2016-03-13 17:38 Shiirn: and moved 7,1
2016-03-13 17:38 Bonsai: the spacing looks like it's 1/2
2016-03-13 17:38 Shiirn: well technically it is?
2016-03-13 17:38 Bonsai: and a slider-jump like that didnÄt occur anywhere else iirc
2016-03-13 17:38 Shiirn: 1/4 slider made to play like 1/2
2016-03-13 17:39 Shiirn: uhhh
2016-03-13 17:39 Bonsai: so 01:37:046 (4,1) - is 1/1?
2016-03-13 17:39 Shiirn: 00:39:776 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1) -
2016-03-13 17:39 Bonsai: spaced like 1/2 then
2016-03-13 17:39 Shiirn: 00:37:370 (2,3,4,5,6) -
2016-03-13 17:39 Bonsai: yeah but not backwards
2016-03-13 17:39 Shiirn: i ctrl g'd 2
2016-03-13 17:39 Bonsai: like at the one I listed you have to make a 180°-turn
2016-03-13 17:39 Bonsai: o ok
2016-03-13 17:39 Shiirn: it was a suggstion to reverse it anyway for the spacing to be lower
2016-03-13 17:39 Shiirn: idk why i took it
2016-03-13 17:39 Shiirn: normally i dont take shitty suggestions
2016-03-13 17:40 Shiirn: musta been sleepy
2016-03-13 17:40 Bonsai: ^^#
2016-03-13 17:41 Bonsai: 01:46:511 (5) - ending on the stronger beat feels 'empty', how about making it 1/2 so the downbeat is clickable?
2016-03-13 17:42 Bonsai: and 01:51:966 (2,3,4) - again feels really weird to be spaced so lowly bc there's still a vocal as intense as ever on (3) so I'd suggest making (3,4) a slider and spacing (2,3) more?
2016-03-13 17:42 Shiirn: that was a spot where i considered doing exactly that and decided the vocals were more impotant for some reason (for 5)
2016-03-13 17:42 Shiirn: i swapped the second one already
2016-03-13 17:42 Shiirn: was in a mod i got
2016-03-13 17:43 Bonsai: you probably felt like that bc the rhythm is special there
2016-03-13 17:43 Shiirn: havent updated in 3 mods lol
2016-03-13 17:43 Bonsai: but that doesn't make the tail less intense in comparison
2016-03-13 17:43 Bonsai: ah nice
2016-03-13 17:43 Shiirn: true
2016-03-13 17:43 Bonsai: maybe u should
2016-03-13 17:43 Bonsai:
2016-03-13 17:43 Shiirn: WELL
2016-03-13 17:43 Shiirn: i woke up and was like
2016-03-13 17:43 Shiirn: "oh i got a mod,b etter start doing it and start poking people gently while doing it"
2016-03-13 17:43 Shiirn: only to get anxient to mod it RIGHT THEN AND THERE
2016-03-13 17:43 Shiirn: and we've been over it
2016-03-13 17:44 Shiirn: so 3 mods
2016-03-13 17:44 Shiirn: lol
2016-03-13 17:44 Bonsai: 02:15:228 (5) - being offbeat seems weird again since you didn't follow that guitar-line that closely before
2016-03-13 17:44 Bonsai: 02:16:992 (3) -
2016-03-13 17:45 Bonsai: let's get negative points for missing that one
2016-03-13 17:45 Bonsai: owait
2016-03-13 17:45 Bonsai: I messe that up myself
2016-03-13 17:45 Bonsai: wow
2016-03-13 17:45 Shiirn: o_o
2016-03-13 17:45 Bonsai: somehow I made it unsnapped
2016-03-13 17:45 Bonsai: sorry lol
2016-03-13 17:45 Shiirn: also re: the offbeats
2016-03-13 17:46 Shiirn: i find that the offbeat usage is generally pretty well done, seeing as those measures are very very guitar heavy as that is the prominent instrument
2016-03-13 17:46 Shiirn: i mean i can make it an onbeat slider as usual but honestly it's a 1/2 pattern either way plays "well"
2016-03-13 17:46 Bonsai: yeah they are guitar heavy but you didn't make any other offbeat-sliders
2016-03-13 17:46 Bonsai: it plays well in itself
2016-03-13 17:46 Bonsai: but doesn't fit the rest
2016-03-13 17:47 Bonsai: bc i n c o n s i s t e n t heh
2016-03-13 17:47 Shiirn: is there something wrong with that, intrinsically, though?
2016-03-13 17:47 Shiirn: it doesn't fit the other parts because the other parts aren't as guitar heavy
2016-03-13 17:47 Bonsai: uhm
2016-03-13 17:48 Bonsai: what I mean is
2016-03-13 17:48 Bonsai: 02:12:022 (2,3) -
2016-03-13 17:48 Bonsai: this is exactly the same
2016-03-13 17:48 Bonsai: the offbeat-sldier would fit here exactly the same
2016-03-13 17:48 Bonsai: same for 02:12:664 (2,3) - 02:13:305 (2,3) - blablabla
2016-03-13 17:48 Shiirn: i feel like that's stepping into raw "input->output" territory and uhhh i FUCKNIG FORGOT
2016-03-13 17:48 Shiirn: stupid
2016-03-13 17:48 Shiirn: kibbleru
2016-03-13 17:48 Shiirn: ruined the offbeat 1/2 emphasis i had on stacking
2016-03-13 17:49 Shiirn: bcause he misrecognized the pattern
2016-03-13 17:49 Bonsai: yeah that stacking seemed a bit all over the place too lol
2016-03-13 17:49 Shiirn: the stacking was generally
2016-03-13 17:49 Shiirn: two notes stacked before offbeat movement
2016-03-13 17:49 Bonsai: 02:32:717 (3,4) - you never had gaps like that here, always covered by a long slider, so I suggest making this circle + 1/1-slider
2016-03-13 17:50 Shiirn: mmm
2016-03-13 17:50 Bonsai: and also if you're going for offbeat throughout all of that section then 02:14:428 (1) - completely destroys that
2016-03-13 17:50 Shiirn: drums kick back in
2016-03-13 17:50 Bonsai: It fits bc the drums set in here, being onbeat
2016-03-13 17:51 Bonsai: but then it feels weird to go back offbeat at 02:15:231 (5) -
2016-03-13 17:51 Shiirn: MY STYLE
2016-03-13 17:51 Shiirn: MAPPER SPIRIT
2016-03-13 17:51 Shiirn: ACTION throws salt
2016-03-13 17:51 Bonsai: ACTION kills
2016-03-13 17:51 Shiirn: changed pattern to onbeat
2016-03-13 17:51 Shiirn: =.=
2016-03-13 17:52 Bonsai: ACTION is a happy tree
2016-03-13 17:52 Shiirn: ACTION salts the earth
2016-03-13 17:52 Bonsai: and yeah I mean that thing with the spaced triplets occurs thousand times too, like 02:36:086 (2,3,4) - just jumped into my eye rn but as I said, it happens a lot
2016-03-13 17:53 Bonsai: 02:44:108 (2) - being a circle instead of (1) being a slider feels really weird and takes away the emphasis from both vocals and piano imo
2016-03-13 17:54 Shiirn: o_o
2016-03-13 17:54 Shiirn: i honstly felt like the sudden drop in spacing emphasized the piano/duet well enough there
2016-03-13 17:54 Bonsai: in the section I'm in rn it feels like you're focusing on vocals a lot, which is nice ofc, but then 02:53:573 (2,3) - = kill
2016-03-13 17:54 Shiirn: feels weird to throw two 1/2 sliders there for some reason
2016-03-13 17:55 Bonsai: why does a drop of spacing emphasize two things being intesne
2016-03-13 17:55 Shiirn: 3 is on the main word in that stanza though
2016-03-13 17:55 Shiirn: uhhhh
2016-03-13 17:55 Shiirn: how much japanese do you know
2016-03-13 17:55 Bonsai: I learned from Frank-sensei
2016-03-13 17:56 Shiirn: just curious, largely because thos song very very heavily focuses on semantic vocals that carry their own rhythm
2016-03-13 17:56 Bonsai: the vocals
2016-03-13 17:56 Bonsai: have emphasis on 02:43:787 (5) -
2016-03-13 17:56 Shiirn: the entire reason im mapping this VOCALOID ROCK track is because the vocals are done INCREDIBLY well
2016-03-13 17:56 Bonsai: from there on they donÄt have a single syllable anymore
2016-03-13 17:56 Shiirn: indeed
2016-03-13 17:56 Shiirn: i meant
2016-03-13 17:56 Shiirn: the = kill
2016-03-13 17:56 Shiirn: section
2016-03-13 17:57 Bonsai: 02:53:733 (3) - = kill because there are no vocals on head but there are on tail?
2016-03-13 17:57 Bonsai: so I just don't see why it's offbeat + emphasized with such a harsh flow
2016-03-13 17:57 Shiirn: there are actual vocals
2016-03-13 17:57 Bonsai: such harsh flow should be used sparingly, so it actually means something
2016-03-13 17:57 Bonsai: e-i
2016-03-13 17:57 Shiirn: its hard af to hear on lower speeds
2016-03-13 17:57 Bonsai: fuck that tbh
2016-03-13 17:58 Shiirn: but 3 is
2016-03-13 17:58 Shiirn: i-re-te
2016-03-13 17:58 Shiirn: it's litrally 1/4
2016-03-13 17:58 Shiirn: the music kinda overpowers it though, oh well that happens in music sometimes
2016-03-13 17:58 Bonsai: 02:53:573 - ke 02:53:733 - i 02:53:894 - re 02:54:054 - te
2016-03-13 17:58 Bonsai: the e-i isn't audible at all
2016-03-13 17:59 Bonsai: and definitely not stronger than the next beat
2016-03-13 17:59 Shiirn: *i-re-i-te
2016-03-13 17:59 Shiirn: well yeah
2016-03-13 17:59 Shiirn: i guess
2016-03-13 17:59 Shiirn: you just hate offbeat
2016-03-13 17:59 Shiirn: admit it
2016-03-13 17:59 Shiirn: ACTION runs
2016-03-13 17:59 Bonsai: but even if it were, I'm also saying that I'd save such flow for stuff like 02:52:610 (4,5) - where it is indeed really special and all rhythmic elements empasize that beat, whereast th other one is pretty regular
2016-03-13 17:59 Bonsai: I hate unjustified offbeat
2016-03-13 18:00 Bonsai: I use a lot of offbeat
2016-03-13 18:00 Bonsai: ACTION is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/896897 Cady Groves - This Little Girl (Speed Up Ver.)]
2016-03-13 18:00 Bonsai: hf
2016-03-13 18:00 Bonsai: full vocal-focus, everything offbeat lol
2016-03-13 18:00 Shiirn: >nightcore
2016-03-13 18:00 Shiirn: ACTION throws salt
2016-03-13 18:00 Shiirn: finally updated
2016-03-13 18:01 Bonsai: I have been modding for one and a half hours now
2016-03-13 18:01 Bonsai: rip
2016-03-13 18:01 Bonsai: me
2016-03-13 18:01 Bonsai: thanks
2016-03-13 18:01 Shiirn: its ok to hate me
2016-03-13 18:01 Bonsai: p/4962198
2016-03-13 18:01 Bonsai: what
2016-03-13 18:01 Bonsai: is he saying
2016-03-13 18:01 Bonsai: how does that make sense
2016-03-13 18:01 Shiirn: moodyrpg is ignorable
2016-03-13 18:03 Bonsai: 02:57:423 (2,3) - again the thing with the offbeat, but still, the flow is just really uncomfortable and I don't see justification for that flow here in any way
2016-03-13 18:04 Bonsai: also I think 02:59:027 (1,2,3,1) - is pretty weird to play but I can't articulate flow-issues very well
2016-03-13 18:04 Bonsai: 03:02:236 (1,2) - again the thing with the gap instead of slider
2016-03-13 18:05 Bonsai: 03:07:690 (1,2) - 1/4 WOULD PLAY MUCH BETTER I MEAN YEAH THERE'S 1/3 IN THE SONG BUT 1/4 WOULD FIT THE INTENSITY BETTER
2016-03-13 18:05 Bonsai: xd
2016-03-13 18:05 Bonsai: jk
2016-03-13 18:06 Shiirn: k
2016-03-13 18:07 Bonsai: 03:12:664 (5,6,7) - wtf did you ever do that anywhere else lol
2016-03-13 18:07 Shiirn: yes, later on in the kiai
2016-03-13 18:07 Shiirn: 04:15:391 (2,3,4,5,6,7) -
2016-03-13 18:08 Shiirn: at least
2016-03-13 18:08 Shiirn: the double triples
2016-03-13 18:08 Bonsai: that's compeltely different
2016-03-13 18:08 Bonsai: what you did there is spacing it like auto-stack but reversed
2016-03-13 18:08 Bonsai: which is weird af tbh
2016-03-13 18:08 Shiirn: oh?
2016-03-13 18:08 Bonsai: like, why not just stack it normally
2016-03-13 18:08 Shiirn: i mean
2016-03-13 18:08 Shiirn: manual stacking is all over an-
2016-03-13 18:08 Shiirn: because then it'd touch03:13:305 (9) -
2016-03-13 18:08 Shiirn: duh
2016-03-13 18:08 Bonsai: WELL THEN
2016-03-13 18:08 Shiirn: it's only gay of the objects touch
2016-03-13 18:08 Bonsai: MAKE THE SLIDER
2016-03-13 18:08 Bonsai: LIKE EVERY ELSE
2016-03-13 18:08 Bonsai: HUEHUE
2016-03-13 18:09 Bonsai: bc then it's bigger radius
2016-03-13 18:09 Bonsai: and wouldn't touch
2016-03-13 18:09 Bonsai: that blanket is imperfect anyways
2016-03-13 18:09 Bonsai: heh
2016-03-13 18:09 Bonsai: sry for capsing, that's just stylistic xd
2016-03-13 18:09 Bonsai: I'm not mad at anything
2016-03-13 18:09 Shiirn: m-m-mapper spirit
2016-03-13 18:09 Shiirn:
2016-03-13 18:10 Shiirn: also i manually stack in different directions
2016-03-13 18:10 Shiirn: all over the place
2016-03-13 18:10 Shiirn: stack leniency is always set to 2 for my maps now
2016-03-13 18:10 Shiirn: i manually stack anything i want stacked
2016-03-13 18:10 Bonsai: also I feel like 03:21:166 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - is completely ignoring the rhythm of the guitar which is grouped into three 1/2s each time
2016-03-13 18:11 Bonsai: wth you do
2016-03-13 18:11 Bonsai: wtf
2016-03-13 18:11 Bonsai: why would you do that
2016-03-13 18:11 Shiirn: ????
2016-03-13 18:11 Shiirn: why not
2016-03-13 18:11 Bonsai: anyways, you still never did it like that anywhere else
2016-03-13 18:11 Shiirn: also uhh that 1/4 bit
2016-03-13 18:11 Shiirn: uhhh
2016-03-13 18:11 Shiirn: er
2016-03-13 18:11 Shiirn: the guitar bit
2016-03-13 18:11 Bonsai: bc that's a lot of work and it doesn't look like it has any effect lol
2016-03-13 18:11 Shiirn: i need to remap that and uhhh
2016-03-13 18:11 Shiirn: its not a lot of work to me imo?
2016-03-13 18:11 Bonsai: ok ^^
2016-03-13 18:12 Bonsai: but just clarifying again, "I manually stack all the time" is not an argument here bc you manuall stack to make it look like auto-stack all the time so there's literally no difference
2016-03-13 18:12 Bonsai: 03:34:001 (3,4) - vocals ignored D:::
2016-03-13 18:13 Shiirn: ACTION plops a circle manually stacked on 03:34:482 -
2016-03-13 18:13 Bonsai: also I don't hear 03:42:824 (7,2,4) - at all and it makes this section be more dense than it feels again
2016-03-13 18:14 Shiirn: on grid snap of this level, each block is 4 pixels and manual stacking is 4 pixels
2016-03-13 18:14 Shiirn: the piano is there
2016-03-13 18:14 Bonsai: isn't manual stacking 3x3 tho
2016-03-13 18:14 Bonsai: yeah but not really audible
2016-03-13 18:14 Bonsai: it's at 03:44:749 - too in the same way
2016-03-13 18:14 Shiirn: it's actually
2016-03-13 18:14 Shiirn: 3.5 pixels
2016-03-13 18:14 Shiirn: but the editor rounds
2016-03-13 18:14 Bonsai: but coordinates always say it's 3
2016-03-13 18:15 Shiirn: at that point the track is ending
2016-03-13 18:15 Bonsai: like, when I stack, the coordinates show me that it's moved by 3x3
2016-03-13 18:15 Shiirn: let's take a look-see
2016-03-13 18:15 Shiirn: 03:12:022 (1,2,3) - this is automatically stacked
2016-03-13 18:15 Shiirn: because 1/4 are still stacked at leniency 2
2016-03-13 18:16 Shiirn: 2-3 is 4x4 pixels, 1-2 is 3x3.
2016-03-13 18:16 Shiirn: Why is that?
2016-03-13 18:16 Shiirn: Because 3.5 pixels and the editor rounds. 2 is actually at 187.5, 219.5
2016-03-13 18:16 Bonsai: oh ok
2016-03-13 18:16 Bonsai: wth
2016-03-13 18:16 Bonsai: fuck that
2016-03-13 18:17 Shiirn: the fun bit is
2016-03-13 18:17 Shiirn: in the .osu they're all 192,224
2016-03-13 18:17 Shiirn: the stacking is done automatically in-game
2016-03-13 18:17 Bonsai: about the flow-thing again, 03:50:364 (4,5) - is a place where imo that harsh flow would fit really well because the rhythm is so special, and you also did it at 03:49:241 (7,1) and 03:51:808 (6,1) - extremely
2016-03-13 18:17 Bonsai: nice
2016-03-13 18:17 Shiirn: that's why i manually stack
2016-03-13 18:17 Shiirn: because i like to know they're stacked at 4x4 pixels
2016-03-13 18:18 Shiirn: changed up 3,4
2016-03-13 18:18 Bonsai: there is no 3,4 kek
2016-03-13 18:19 Bonsai: dunno to which conclusion we came there last time but 04:11:220 (1,2,3) - is that thing with the emphasis again
2016-03-13 18:19 Bonsai: I can explain it a bit more detailed
2016-03-13 18:19 Shiirn: i swapped it to a slider cuz fuck it mapper spirit
2016-03-13 18:20 Bonsai: I expect 04:11:059 (6) - to be the most emphasized beat here bc that's where the vocals lead to, but it is a very common thing to 'delay' the emphasis to the downbeat so it fits the base rhyhtm and it feels pretty much the same when playing, it still feels like the previous beat is emphasized, but like this (1) doesn't give any emphasis at atll, that's why I think it's lacking
2016-03-13 18:21 Bonsai: 04:19:241 (1,2) - wher'd the emphasis go xd
2016-03-13 18:21 Shiirn: mm see i understand what you're saying and i agree to a point
2016-03-13 18:21 Bonsai: lik 04:20:525 (1,2,3) - why is (3) emphasized but (2) not
2016-03-13 18:21 Shiirn: uhhh
2016-03-13 18:21 Bonsai: 04:28:225 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - hOLY FUCK
2016-03-13 18:22 Shiirn: 04:21:166 (4) - this is emphasized
2016-03-13 18:22 Bonsai: aaaaaaaaaaaa
2016-03-13 18:22 Bonsai: yeah but that doesn't affect that (3) is more emphasized than (2)
2016-03-13 18:22 Shiirn: i'd new combo on that 4 if it wouldnt cause you or irre to have a hernia
2016-03-13 18:22 Bonsai: oh NCing
2016-03-13 18:22 Bonsai: 04:22:610 (5,1) - how about sawpping
2016-03-13 18:22 Shiirn: is it? weird
2016-03-13 18:22 Bonsai: yeah it is bc
2016-03-13 18:23 Bonsai: 04:20:525 (1,2) - is just following the sliderpath, you don't have any change of direction + sliderleniency allows you to basically already be on (2) when (1) ends
2016-03-13 18:23 Bonsai: so 2 is not emphasized at all
2016-03-13 18:23 Bonsai: 2-3 is change of direction + way more spacing
2016-03-13 18:24 Bonsai: but about 04:28:225 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - , is there anything in the music that is increasing in this pattern
2016-03-13 18:24 Bonsai: bc I don't hear it
2016-03-13 18:24 Bonsai: I hear exactly the same drums in exactly the same intensity over and over again
2016-03-13 18:24 Bonsai: having so many consecutive jumps is hard already, why do they get bigger too
2016-03-13 18:25 Shiirn: ffs
2016-03-13 18:25 Shiirn: i gotta go
2016-03-13 18:26 Bonsai: !damn!, now I have to stop modding!
2016-03-13 18:26 Bonsai: :^)
2016-03-13 18:26 Bonsai: ok cya
2016-03-13 18:26 Bonsai: I'll just post log and we can continue another time