Guest
home
beatmaps
rankings
community
store
help
forum
  1. Forums
  2. Other
  3. General Discussion

A rant about hitsounds

posted
Total Posts
74
Yuukari-Banteki
1,534 posts
Joined June 2008
Topic Starter
Yuukari-Banteki
People seem to have the misconception that hitsounds really don't matter that much in relation to the rest of the map. They're just something that they put in because they have to to get it ranked, so they find some part of the map and put a stream of hitsounds there, dust their hands off and call it done. Either that or they put in some misfit pattern of either a pattern that doesnt fit (Oh, I know, lets put a finish on every blue tick cus it doesnt line up with the music very well YAY!) or a hitsound that doesnt fit (No good example for that but lets face it, for some maps some sounds just dont. work.)

Now I'm not going to point a finger at any map or anything, but its perfectly possible to RUIN the experience of your map by, for instance, having half of the notes in the map be loud whistles that kill my eardrums and make them bleed. I don't really understand why people defend these hitsounds but I, for one, am rather seriously concerned both for their hearing and for the ears of the poor players who are subjected to that map. While that is an extreme example, many times I see maps where a single badly misplaced sound disrupts the map just enough to distract a player momentarily. Furthermore, the hitsounds can often be what turns a GOOD map into a GREAT map and a GREAT map into a masterpiece.

So why do people dislike hitsound modding so much then? Why do they find the smaller tools, whistle, finish, and clap, to be SO much dwarfed by the rest of the map as to be nigh useless? IMHO the hitsounds are an important component in the ebb and flow of a map, which is to say they are part of the soul of the map. They add flair and spice to a map without changing its difficulty or disrupting patterns. Its not even that difficult to put them in - you select a note, press a button and voila! your map is better. WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO COMPREHEND? I don't know, but I think you should consider it when you listen to maps, when you play them, when you mod them, and CERTAINLY when you map them.

</rant>

RemmyEDIT: Thread tl;dr: Stop sucking with hitsounds.
Last edited by RemmyX25 , edited 1 time in total.
mtmcl
mtmcl
I guess I just figure, if I want them to map it my way, I should have mapped the song myself.
HarryOrunitia
289 posts
Joined August 2008
HarryOrunitia
You get ear-bleeds by playing osu? I think you're the only one.
Actually I have nothing against hitsounds modding, I do that too sometimes, but they can't really be THAT bad in any map. I (almost) think a map should be rankable regardless of hitsounds.
And also, did you really need to open a thread about this?
Yuukari-Banteki
1,534 posts
Joined June 2008
Topic Starter
Yuukari-Banteki

HarryOrunitia wrote:

You get ear-bleeds by playing osu? I think you're the only one.
Actually I have nothing against hitsounds modding, I do that too sometimes, but they can't really be THAT bad in any map. I (almost) think a map should be rankable regardless of hitsounds.
And also, did you really need to open a thread about this?

Yes, they can be that bad. Trust me on this. And I opened a thread about it because 1. i needed to rant and 2. its starting to become a bit of a problem because almost everyone is lenient to a fault on hitsounds
HarryOrunitia
289 posts
Joined August 2008
HarryOrunitia

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

HarryOrunitia wrote:

You get ear-bleeds by playing osu? I think you're the only one.
Actually I have nothing against hitsounds modding, I do that too sometimes, but they can't really be THAT bad in any map. I (almost) think a map should be rankable regardless of hitsounds.
And also, did you really need to open a thread about this?

Yes, they can be that bad. Trust me on this. And I opened a thread about it because 1. i needed to rant and 2. its starting to become a bit of a problem because almost everyone is lenient to a fault on hitsounds
I still have to play any map that bad then. Enjoy your thread I guess ._.
lukewarmholiday
2,148 posts
Joined June 2008
lukewarmholiday
osu! more like new rant everyday
Mogsy
osu! Alumni
3,450 posts
Here since the beginning
Mogsy
My view on the issue:

Usually, there is a perfect set of hitsounds within the way a mapper has mapped something and the mapper's personal style. If they're not getting the desired results, why SHOULDN'T we intervene?

In my honest opinion, I DO hold songs from ranking with unpolished hitsounds. Why? Because an unpolished map doesn't deserved to be played by the general public. Personally, I'd rather not have someone play a shoddily-assembled product that does somethings well and other things terribly. Would you rather have something average or something great?

As for 'impacting creativity', would you call random hitsounds that don't go with the music at all 'creative' and 'intuitive'? Because I sure as hell wouldn't. There's more than a fine line between taking creative liberties and just being lazy. Still working with a player's style and a map's style should yield the perfect results, and it doesn't impact creativity at all IMO. Maps can be as creative with hitsounds as they want, as long as they make sense while still being interesting, and I believe it is my job to see that a map is as close to perfect as a mapper can get it.
HarryOrunitia
289 posts
Joined August 2008
HarryOrunitia

Mogsworth wrote:

My view on the issue:

Usually, there is a perfect set of hitsounds within the way a mapper has mapped something and the mapper's personal style.
No. No, no no. Just no. You can say "Hey, this sounds bad, imo" but you can't really force anyone to change something just cause you think the way you do it is perfect. As long as "Follow Mogsworth's suggestions" isn't added to the rankability criteria, you can't really do that.
Mogsy
osu! Alumni
3,450 posts
Here since the beginning
Mogsy

HarryOrunitia wrote:

Mogsworth wrote:

My view on the issue:

Usually, there is a perfect set of hitsounds within the way a mapper has mapped something and the mapper's personal style.
No. No, no no. Just no. You can say "Hey, this sounds bad, imo" but you can't really force anyone to change something just cause you think the way you do it is perfect. As long as "Follow Mogsworth's suggestion" isn't added to the rankability criteria, you can't really do that.
It's not necessarily how I'd do it, either, I'm still working within a map's style, a-dur. Also, you're missing a critical part of the equation:

I'm a composer, I work with stuff like this on a daily basis in my field.

Oh, right, Mogsy knows what he's doing.

"but u cnat translyat dat 2 oh sue"

The thing is, I'm saying this:
-A map should have fully polished hitsounds before being ranked.
-I'm a lot more sensitive to hitsounds and what should be placed where according to mapper style, song style, and the map itself due to my background.
-Bad hitsounds are bad hitsounds, no matter what kind of BS you try to mask it with.

I look like a giant dick while saying this, but it's true, you're basically defending someone's right to have something that they didn't care for on all fronts get ranked. What you're saying is that a map shouldn't be able to reach its full potential.
HarryOrunitia
289 posts
Joined August 2008
HarryOrunitia

Mogsworth wrote:

I'm a composer, I work with stuff like this on a daily basis in my field.
So what? The fact that you are a composer doesn't really mean we can't have different opinions on hitsounds.

-A map should have fully polished hitsounds before being ranked.
And I guess it's you again who decides when they're "fully polished"?

-I'm a lot more sensitive to hitsounds and what should be placed where according to mapper style, song style, and the map itself due to my background.
Yeah I get it, I think this is like the fifth time you say it in this thread, and there's also your signature.

-Bad hitsounds are bad hitsounds, no matter what kind of BS you try to mask it with.
Matter of tastes, but I think the point of your post is: "let's ignore personal tastes".

I look like a giant dick while saying this, but it's true, you're basically defending someone's right to have something that they didn't care for on all fronts get ranked. What you're saying is that a map shouldn't be able to reach its full potential.
Yeah, now I look like a giant dick too.

EDIT: oh, I want to add, this will be my last post here, I really don't want to get in big arguments or whatever. I'm just telling my opinion and it shouldn't get personal. I have nothing against anyone here. I apologize to anyone who will be/was offendend by my posts D:
Last edited by HarryOrunitia , edited 1 time in total.
Mogsy
osu! Alumni
3,450 posts
Here since the beginning
Mogsy
It doesn't seem like you get it, quite honestly. You're really just trying to mask the fact that bad hitsounds exist.

u cnat d-cyde wuts rong or rite
Actually, yes, I can. I'm going by what my ear tells me. I'm not ignoring personal taste, either, in case you missed my other few posts.

othr peepz has uhpinyunz
I don't care, to be quite honest. If the change they refuse to fix is minuscule, I'll let it slide. However, if they try to keep something that doesn't sound the least bit good, I will try to calmly reason with them.

u cant d-cyd wuts polishd
Yes, I can. Quite honestly, as a BAT, I'm fully qualified to do that. So, I'm not the only one qualified.

EDORT: I apologize for being so rude, really. Nobody deserves that kind of treatment, and for some reason I felt like it was needed to drive the point home. I apologize if I possibly offended you. :/
Sleep Powder
1,540 posts
Joined October 2008
Sleep Powder
I'm a composer, I work with stuff like this on a daily basis in my field.

Oh, right, Mogsy knows what he's doing.
First of all...this is Mogsy's signature quote...to me it is anyways.

But he doesn't seem to realize that people have different hitsound patterns and it does not need to be any specific way.
EDIT: Well maybe he does...but he gets picky sometimes...


And I guess it's you again who decides when they're "fully polished"?
Oh there is probably someone out there that could make it more polished than Mogsy...Mogsy can't be the best in the world...but maybe just osu! lol
Furthermore, the hitsounds can often be what turns a GOOD map into a GREAT map and a GREAT map into a masterpiece.
This is the definition of hitsound modding...and good beatmaps.
Bad hitsounds are bad hitsounds, no matter what kind of BS you try to mask it with.
Can't be that hard to tell if its a bad hitsound or not...just by listening...whistles in some beatmaps seem to make my head explode while some ( like for example my shugo chara beatmap ) sound enjoyable with the song.

In my honest opinion, I DO hold songs from ranking with unpolished hitsounds.
ztrot has ranked stuff with unpolished hitsounds...lol even though you two probably have a little history going on already.

Furthermore, the hitsounds can often be what turns a GOOD map into a GREAT map and a GREAT map into a masterpiece.
This is where hitsound modding comes in~

(yeah that's everything I wanted to reply to...osu! has seen my first long post...in black)
Mogsy
osu! Alumni
3,450 posts
Here since the beginning
Mogsy
Can't be that hard to tell if its a bad hitsound or not...just by listening...whistles in some beatmaps seem to make my head explode while some ( like for example my shugo chara beatmap ) sound enjoyable with the song.
Not to insult the general public, but most aren't able to tell.

...but he gets picky sometimes...
Only when it's of drastic importance.

Oh there is probably someone out there that could make it more polished than Mogsy...Mogsy can't be the best in the world...but maybe just osu! lol
Quite a backhanded compliment. :/

ztrot has ranked stuff with unpolished hitsounds...lol even though you two probably have a little history going on already.
I don't think I ranked any of their maps without hitsound-modding them to death.

I'm done with this.
The_Priest_In_Yellow
319 posts
Joined September 2008
The_Priest_In_Yellow
While taste is something very much subjective that should not be discussed, unless on equal footing. There are some sounds that sound universally bad.

A solid and understandable example is of course the difference between the two default soundsets; normal and soft. If a map looks good but sounds bad, eg. too high hitsounds volume (which can make whistle sounds unbearable imho) every mod, regardless of position, can point it out so that the mapper can fix it. Or at the very least try it out and make a choice whether to keep the original or modify it.

Speaking from personal experience I often get blinded by my own work, this might be because of pride or some other social function. Nevertheless, if I recieve a suggestion for hitsound modding I change it and listen through the map, trying to decide if I think it sounds better or not.

While a map needs hitsounds to rank, the positioning and composition of them has not been described. I believe this is why modding hitsounds is actually an important part of the mapping/modding collaboration since hitsounds, if well executed to suit the map and song, can contribute a lot to the atmosphere and gameplay of the actual map.

While they may be suggestions, one should not brush them off at an instant whilst proclaiming IT'S MY STYLE. Something I think mappers use unrighteously at times. Maybe even often.

I honestly don't care if the mod comes from a BAT or a user, from a composer or a streetperformer. If I think it adds to the map, I follow advice.

Mapping is not mapper vs mod, a battle to get your map ranked. It is a collaboration between two elements to create a map as good as possible, for players and you to enjoy.

Forgive me if I sound harsh and stray from the subject. But I thought it important to mention these things.

EDIT:
I don't really like tl;dr because an argument should be read in its entirety (sometimes twice) to reach a proper understanding.
Mashley
2,042 posts
Joined September 2008
Mashley
Guys don't argue with the BATs they are always right.
Also I agree with SFG. Personally I add hitsounds while mapping, and I beleive they can definitely make a map sooooo much better. Take a good map and take the hitsounds out, you'll see what I mean.
Jarby
2,963 posts
Joined August 2008
Jarby

Agent Spin Here wrote:

Guys don't argue with the BATs they are always right.
Cuddlebun
965 posts
Joined August 2008
Cuddlebun
oh boy another rant

inb4sticky
Yuukari-Banteki
1,534 posts
Joined June 2008
Topic Starter
Yuukari-Banteki

Agent Spin Here wrote:

Guys don't argue with the BATs they are always right.

BAT are humans, too. We don't get some magical injection that gives us superhuman powers of modding when we get our BAT wings. Therefore, despite what you might think, its still perfectly possible for us to make mistakes.

In general, I have to say that Tippy stated my point a lot better than I did. "Style" is now, and from what I can tell has almost always been the overused way that mappers defend bad parts of the map because they're too lazy and/or proud to change them. But if a mapper truly wants what's best for their map they will at least ATTEMPT to change their map, with the full knowledge that if they don't like the way hitsound h sounds on note n, they can always take it back OFF again with no more than perhaps a minute of time wasted. There's a revert-to-saved option for a reason guys.

I'm not asking you to obey your modders blindly, and I certainly don't mean that you should blindly reject advice either; it works a whole lot better if you just open your eyes and judge by the actual merit of the points made.
foulcoon
osu! Alumni
1,384 posts
Joined July 2008
foulcoon

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

Agent Spin Here wrote:

Guys don't argue with the BATs they are always right.

BAT are humans, too. We don't get some magical injection that gives us superhuman powers of modding when we get our BAT wings.
Coincidentally, there is no such thing as BAT wings either.

In other news, that guy on the first page who said he didn't want things to get personal after blatantly insulting Mogsworth and his profession who I forgot the name of because he was being a gigantic dick made me laugh. Laughing almost as much as that run-on sentence right there. If you didn't want things to get personal, don't attack his career choice.
awp
osu! Alumni
11,869 posts
Here since the beginning
awp
I think the problem is just that the point was missed. There is no single correct hitsound layout. There's bad, and there's good. It's not a black and white issue, but if you're not open to criticism or suggestions from any one individual, don't expect them to cave and bubble your map anyway.

Also, anyone who listens to music on a regular basis should be able to tell whether or not there's creative merit or that something "works". Everyone has opinions, sure. But maybe, just maybe, sometimes your "opinions" are just bad.
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply

0
1 / 74