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Shoko Nakagawa - Sorairo Days (Short Version)

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Topic Starter
Phrygian
This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on Wednesday, 30 January 2008 at 08:17:57 PM

Artist: Shoko Nakagawa
Title: Sorairo Days (Short Version)
BPM: 174.1
Filesize: 1983kb
Play Time: 01:24
Difficulties Available:
  1. Normal (3.68 stars, 114 notes)
  2. Hard (4.74 stars, 181 notes)
Download: Shoko Nakagawa - Sorairo Days (Short Version)
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
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This is the opening song for Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.

I'm aware there was already another beatmap of this song, but I had started it before I noticed...
However, this one is much, much shorter, and I personally think more interesting.

Anyone who's watched the anime should understand why it's filled with SPIRALS... I think I got a little carried away, actually, the whole thing is spiral themed. Your drill is the DRILL THAT WILL PIERCE THE HEAVENS!! =O

Any comments are appreciated, of course.

Edit: Incorporated Zyid's suggestions.

Edit: Changed BPM, thanks again Echo! Also changed a few minor beats.

Edit: More changes.
Loginer
The sliders aren't too bad, it just takes a while to get used to the speed.
However, you have to make a beatmap with less madness, for the less experienced players. >:3
Zyid
I love both the song and the spiral theme you chose for the beat placements. However some parts seemed off-beat, like 41:59 on Hard for example. It's a really good beatmap. If I were you I'd go through it at half speed to make sure everything is on-beat.
Topic Starter
Phrygian
Thanks a lot for the comments. =D

I did like you suggested and went through both versions at half speed, and I didn't find anything too off in terms of timing, but I did really take some liberties with the actual placement...

That part you mentioned at 41:59 was actually intentional - I was following the triplet pattern of the synth in the background... But now that I think about it, unless you're really familiar with the song, you'd never pick that out. xD It's a slider, so I don't think it'd hurt plays much, but if you think it's confusing, I'll just change them to straight eighth notes (err, 1/2s).

Normal, however, I DID try to break away from the vocals in certain places, to try to vary things like the original Ouendan. They tend to go off and follow the guitar for a bit. If that's still too confusing, I guess I could change those also. Some comments from people who play more normal maps would help... I pretty much only play hard/insane. xP
Zyid
Okay, I really love this song and think this beatmap has a ton of awesome potential, so I'm going go systematically through it with every issue I have. Right now it fluctuates between being totally awesome and totally annoying. If you can clear this list, I will thought bubble it.

HARD:
00:05:94 - After listen to it carefully I think you were trying to follow the obscure drums in the background here. Obviously that's not the first thing people are going to hear. I agree that it's good to vary what the beatmap follows, but sometimes that works against you and makes the beatmap not flow. This is one such example. Make it follow the heavy metallic sound instead.
00:30:76 - I can't tell what this repeating blue slider is supposed to be following. Whatever it is, it's jarring and doesn't fit. The rest of the chain follows the lyrics well, try to make this one follow suit.
00:36:09 - The first in the green chain. Doesn't seem to match the lyrics or any prominent background beat. Also "feels" wrong. Take it out.
00:36:93 - The second blue beat. Same problem. Take it out.
00:37:15 - I see what you were trying to do here. I don't think it worked. Change it to a plain slider.
00:40:02, 00:41:07, 00:41:44 - You missed beats here, and it feels empty.
00:41:93 - This slider is a beat late and should be plain.
01:16:28 - Same problem as 00:05:94. It feels totally wrong.

Will do normal mode later.

Also, add the video.
Topic Starter
Phrygian
Thanks for the detailed analysis. =D

I agree with most, but some really don't quite work for me... they were actually all intentional... xD

"00:05:94 - After listen to it carefully I think you were trying to follow the obscure drums in the background here. Obviously that's not the first thing people are going to hear. I agree that it's good to vary what the beatmap follows, but sometimes that works against you and makes the beatmap not flow. This is one such example. Make it follow the heavy metallic sound instead."
Erm, I really can't see the problem here... I'm following the guitar... try listening again? I think it's easily the most prominent thing, much more noticable than the synth...

00:30:76 - I can't tell what this repeating blue slider is supposed to be following. Whatever it is, it's jarring and doesn't fit. The rest of the chain follows the lyrics well, try to make this one follow suit.
I really liked this slider O_O... Ouendan did that sort of syncopated slider tons of times, I'm keeping that in.

00:36:09 - The first in the green chain. Doesn't seem to match the lyrics or any prominent background beat. Also "feels" wrong. Take it out.
00:36:93 - The second blue beat. Same problem. Take it out.
00:37:15 - I see what you were trying to do here. I don't think it worked. Change it to a plain slider.

You're right here, I was trying to change things up again, but it's kinda confusing.

00:40:02, 00:41:07, 00:41:44 - You missed beats here, and it feels empty.
00:41:93 - This slider is a beat late and should be plain.

My intention here was to follow the background synth.. which is pretty unnoticeable. xD This is what happens when you're too familiar with a song. xP I changed that too. That slider wasn't a beat late, the synth was just doing a triplet pattern.

01:16:28 - Same problem as 00:05:94. It feels totally wrong.
Same as I mentioned above...

Hrm, I guess my desire to break from the melody gets me in trouble. =D I've never thought of Ouendan as a game that was meant to be tapped to the melody, rather to the feel and rhythm... I do lose the feel sometimes though.

Thanks again for that, although I don't agree with all of it, I still do really appreciate the advice. Anyone else have thoughts on those changes?

Edit: Oh right, the video... I'm not really sure how to get/add it... I was also thinking - is it possible to have a background image present when "no video" is selected? My computer isn't always good enough to play completely lag free while showing video, and I always find myself selecting no video. It always seems so bare. -_- And the picture is really epic. =D
Zyid

Moogle wrote:

Erm, I really can't see the problem here... I'm following the guitar... try listening again? I think it's easily the most prominent thing, much more noticable than the synth...
When slowed down, you are correct. This makes it very difficult to map the synth. However, no matter how many times I play it, the way you have it now never feels natural at all. I'm wondering if I'm alone on this, but I just can't see it.

I really liked this slider O_O... Ouendan did that sort of syncopated slider tons of times, I'm keeping that in.
This is a real problem as well. On each repeat it makes a beat, but these beats never correlate with the music. It also goes on for too long. Essentially, it makes no sense.

I've attached an .osz with an intro following the synth. It may not be perfect, but it feels much better to me. I also changed the slider. The two sliders you used right before it are perfect and should have been used a third time. Try it and see what you think.

Download: Shoko Nakagawa - Sorairo Days (Short Version) (Moogle) [Zyid-Hard].osu
Topic Starter
Phrygian
For some reason, I can't get it to play in play mode, but I looked at it in edit...

To be honest, I really can't understand what's going on with the first bit in your version... I don't think we mean the same thing by synth... or something... maybe I've just heard it too many times. I was talking about the high pitched part.. and for lack of a better way to describe it, its going "B, F#, A", repeatedly, all in the same octave (Meaning it goes down to the F#). I don't think what you're doing is matching that, and I can't really find what you are matching... so I'm not really sure what to say on this... If the notes thing up there helped, then the thing that I'm following is the guitar, which is playing "C C D D D, C C D D, C C D D, C C D D D, C C D D ^Bb ^Bb" Any other mods have an opinion on this?

I do understand exactly what you're saying with the slider though. I think it "feels" right, but feel is really a matter of opinion. If it's bothering anyone else, I'll remove it.

I'm sorry to have to disagree so much, but I really like the song, and I want the beatmap to be as good as possible. =D
Zyid

Moogle wrote:

I'm sorry to have to disagree so much, but I really like the song, and I want the beatmap to be as good as possible. =D
As do I.

It seems that since we're at an impasse on these two issues, it'll have to go to a third opinion. I'm adding a star to let this beatmap get some more attention, because as far as I'm concerned hard mode is perfect aside from those two things.
Echo
First, the BPM is wrong. You can hear it rushing towards the end. Set it to 174.10 and resnap. Unfortunately, since you have sliders, they'll all have to be readjusted to match the new BPM.

For normal, just a few things:
11.99 - the distance between the red 2 and 3/4 are misleading; it should be the same as the distance between the 1 and 2
30.41 - the blue 2-5: I realise you're just using the previous rhythm, and I do that sometimes even if it doesn't quite match the song. However, with this one, it just doesn't sound right. Play around with it and see if you can get it to work.

As for the things pointed out by Zyid in hard:
I think the 5-4-4-5-4 rhythm completely fine. In fact, I would have done the same thing if I was mapping this song, not the same pattern but definitely the rhythm. It's one of the unique rhythms that very few songs have, and I always feel the unique rhythms should be pointed out. After all, Ouendan is a rhythm game.

As for the syncopated blue slider, it can stay or go. It's not that special but it doesn't destroy the rhythm/timing of the player. However, can you please make it more symmetrical? It's really an eyesore at the moment :P Even if you're trying to follow a spiral shape, I think a symmetrical slider will look much better.
Zyid

Echo49 wrote:

As for the things pointed out by Zyid in hard:
I think the 5-4-4-5-4 rhythm completely fine.
With that description I finally got what it's supposed to be following. But if my impression is correct (and it may still be wrong), then that rhythm begins before the actual beatmap. What threw me off is that the beatmap doesn't begin with the rhythm, but rather kicks in at the same time as the...whatever you want to call it. Anyway now I think I "get" it.

I still feel strongly about that slider though. I don't really see any purpose for it that justifies how little sense it makes.
Echo
@Zyid: The song starts out with 5-4-4-5-4-2, then the beatmap starts and the song repeats that bit again.

@Moogle: Listening to the blue slider again, it doesn't feel "right" anymore. Maybe replace it with a single beat at 30.76 and a slider from 30.93-31.10 repeated 1-3 times? Or something like that, play around with it.
Topic Starter
Phrygian
Thanks for the comments and BPM, Echo, guess I should spend more time perfecting my BPMs...
I also moved the offset back a touch, what do you think?

Ok ok ok, you win about the blue slider. xD I replaced it with what Zyid did in the Zyid-hard mode.
I also did those changes Echo suggested about normal mode... As for that change with the blue combo... you might find it a little familiar... xD But I think it works in normal the way I put it in this time. (edit: I changed it to normal beats again at Echo's suggestion. The blue slider is dead =(... )
Echo
*bubbles*
Zyid
*ranks*
Zerostarry
Offset +27?
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