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Copy-paste: Your thoughts?

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143
kingcobra52
osu! Alumni
974 posts
Joined May 2008
Topic Starter
kingcobra52
A lot of mappers (including myself) use copy/paste frequently in order to map faster. I'm curious about what people think about it in general from both the mapper's and player's perspective.

For mappers:

-Do you use copy/paste in your maps? How often? Do you leave it as it is or change it around? (flip horizontal/vertical, move sliders/notes, etc.)

For players:

-When you run into a copy/paste from before, what are you thinking at that point? Are you glad because the map's more predictable, or are you shaming the mapper for being lazy?

-What's your general opinion of copy-pasting? Is flipping horizontal/vertical enough to "change-up" a pattern from before and keep it interesting?

Let me know what you guys think.
Kytoxid
osu! Alumni
1,369 posts
Joined April 2009
Kytoxid
As both a mapper and a player, I found it good as long as it's not in excess, and the music merits the use of the same pattern again. Generally I try to avoid doing it more than once for one pattern though (so one pattern shows up only twice), because any more and it feels boring. I usually do a hofizontal flip or a 180 degree rotation.

In short: I don't think it should be done for the sole purpose of speeding up the mapping process, but it can be a good thing if used effectively.
aRiskOfRain
osu! Alumni
1,367 posts
Joined June 2009
aRiskOfRain
I think a nice piece of copy paste is awesome, even in the hardest map of a song. To play, they are a treat. I love them, so I probably tend to do it too much when I map.

I sometimes change it for the very last verse.
blissfulyoshi
osu! Alumni
4,755 posts
Joined July 2008
blissfulyoshi
For me both as a mapper and a player, I feel that copy and pasting is a very boring technique unless it is used for a reflection for a jump. (Jumps look a lot nicer and are easier to read if they are notes reflected across axis)

Seeing the same or similar patterns annoy me. If used, the map usually becomes predictable and repetitious. When making my own maps, I try to make sure each repeat of similar note patterns is drastically changed from the last occurrence (sadly, this does not always happen).
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old
Copy-pasting minor art sliders (e.g. a wave slider)? Sure.

For everything else, it depends. In most cases, the music has to sound almost exactly the same for it to be justified. Most of the time, copy-pasted parts need to be close together on the timeline and in position without modification, or they need to be rotated much or flipped. Not sure if I made that clear, but hey...

Three pastes (and one of the source, making four repeated patterns) is my general limit. One paste is good for a section close on the timeline.

One good use of copy-pasta IMO was in Date of Rebirth. There were six identical sections in the song, grouped in two's. I mapped three different patterns for the first three, and copy-pasted them into the last three. Each pairing was unique, and the repeated patterns were flipped and adjusted so they flowed better with the other pattern in the pair.

Another perspective of copy-pasta: copy-pasting patterns, but changing spacing and the type of notes. The absolute best example one could ask for is Unity at 00:35:482 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3). foul's use of this pseudo-copy-pasta makes a somewhat confusing timing pattern so intuitive because you learn as you play.

Bleh.

I have no grudge against mappers who use copy-pasta except in the case where either (1) it makes the map sound weird (ahem) or (2) it just plays poorly. I'm too tired to come up with examples of good and bad "real" copy-pasta at the moment.
An64fan
osu! Alumni
864 posts
Joined September 2008
An64fan
As a mapper, I never c/p except when lining stuff up in a particular way (this is usually jumps). I never c/p otherwise.

As for others using c/p, I have no problem as long as it's only bits and pieces of the map. Otherwise, it becomes boring in a hurry.
minyeob
osu! Alumni
2,540 posts
Joined May 2008
minyeob
As a mapper: I never use copy/paste.

As a player: I'm shaming the mapper and filp thing is not enough to change patterns. *ex) Ouendan/EBA maps lol
MegaManEXE
710 posts
Here since the beginning
MegaManEXE
I use it for symmetrical purposes, but I try not to take, for example, the entire chorus and copy and paste it over and over each time.

I tend to C&P rhythms a lot but I make sure I arrange them differently to try to keep it somewhat fresh and new.
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish
I usually make the choruses all the same if the music is identical, with the second a 180 rotation and the third a horizontal flip on the first. I sometimes make the last chorus different though.
Lesjuh
Elite Mapper
2,442 posts
Joined October 2008
Lesjuh
erpderp http://osu.ppy.sh/b/43589
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
As a mapper, I have to admit laziness has sometimes been the problem... but I generally try not to copy paste even if the sections are identical. The only reason I would do so is if I'm trying to do Oibon Jumps or for symmetry purposes.

As a player, they're fine. In fact they're easier to read.
Card N'FoRcE
osu! Alumni
4,058 posts
Here since the beginning
Card N'FoRcE
Mapper POV: usually when i map and make a copy-paste i also try to change something more, instead of only flipping. Anyway, this happens only when i get two identical sections in the song. I just like it more this way.

Player POV: as long as the copy-paste is not so highly used, i barely notice it at all. If i do i usually don't care if it fits the map well.

In other words, copy-paste is not so bad, in my opinion it's even better to use it sometimes, it keeps the map more consistent.
rust45
1,088 posts
Joined May 2009
rust45
As a mapper, I use copy pasta at the chorus of the song, but I only use this to so I don't have to place notes again, usually the pattern varies greatly from what I copied. Although my exception to this is when I'm making a nice symmetrical pattern.

As a player, I think copy paste can be good and fun, reminds me a lot of EBA maps and a lot of the times the patterns are done so well they don't get boring the third time around. And to me, maps that feel like that are needed more than the "OMG RAPE IN THE FACE" maps, fun, without excessive amounts of challenge.
Derekku
COOL DUDE
7,270 posts
Joined March 2009
Derekku
For a map with two choruses, I think that having the second chorus be a copy-paste of the first (with horiz and/or vert flipping) is fine. Though, SOME differences are always nice. For the meltdown diff I did, I copy pasted for the second chorus, but moved a bunch of the notes and sliders around so that they went in different directions and angles. So, it gave a similar "feel" but also a newer one. :3

For three choruses, I'd make the first two about the same, but something completely different for the third. :3
CheeseWarlock
osu! Alumni
1,185 posts
Joined May 2008
CheeseWarlock
I think repetition is one of the most overlooked aspects of a map. And not just copy-pasting with the occasional flip; use different patterns but with some amount of consistency in the appearance, the timing of the notes, even the hitsounds! If the music repeats, the mapping should reflect that. I've seen maps that made excellent use of these concepts without a single copy-paste, and other maps that had sections repeating 4+ times that were just as great. Too much repetition can be a problem, sure, but it's not one I see very often.
anonymous_old
0 posts
Here since the beginning
anonymous_old

CheeseWarlock wrote:

I think repetition is one of the most overlooked aspects of a map. And not just copy-pasting with the occasional flip; use different patterns but with some amount of consistency in the appearance, the timing of the notes, even the hitsounds! If the music repeats, the mapping should reflect that. I've seen maps that made excellent use of these concepts without a single copy-paste, and other maps that had sections repeating 4+ times that were just as great. Too much repetition can be a problem, sure, but it's not one I see very often.
I just realized Lemon Tree fits well to that. =] (Good job, MM.)
nomedeusuarionaodisp
161 posts
Joined September 2008
nomedeusuarionaodisp
Same answer as usual: as long as it fits the map, I don't mind. They also fit well in refrains.

On my beginning days of osu! I didn't like them much (as you can see on that awful thing I have in my Graveyard), but... even though I haven't really gotten much better (and now that I finally sort of played OTO2 - oh god why don't I have a DS already), I can see where they might or not be useful or fun.
...I guess.
Aoitenshi
711 posts
Joined February 2009
Aoitenshi
I am an original type person, so even on 3 minutes song, I forced myself to make them all original, unless I will need Oibon jump.
Zekira
9,233 posts
Joined September 2008
Zekira
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Nakata Yuji
471 posts
Joined April 2009
Nakata Yuji
I personally copy and paste to avoid having to make hitsounds, as well as the advantage of having the notes already placed. I generally move them around after through to make it different.
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