18:49 Shiirn: irc mod or bust
18:49 Voli: gg ok
18:51 Shiirn: ok?
18:51 Voli: yeah go
18:51 Voli: LOL
18:51 Shiirn: 00:03:230 (4,1) - make it more apparent that this is starting a new measure
18:51 Shiirn: atm its all just one massive cluster with no real impactful variation in spacing or angle
18:52 Voli: you want me to space them further?
18:52 Shiirn: not just space, angle
18:52 Voli: 00:06:388 (5,1) -
18:52 Voli: liek these
18:52 Shiirn: 00:03:822 (3,4,5,6) - like these
18:52 Shiirn: space really hard
18:52 Shiirn: and angle really hard
18:52 Shiirn: but are comparatively much less relevant
18:52 Voli: the pitch change in the latter one is like
18:52 Voli: way more tho
18:52 Voli: so i wont angle it so much
18:52 Shiirn: pitch doesn't matter as much as musical section
18:53 Voli: 00:03:033 (3,4,1,2) - these are 90 degree angle
18:53 Shiirn: it's starting a new repeat of the rhythm
18:53 Shiirn: im not talking angle as in movement
18:53 Shiirn: im talking like
18:53 Voli: ok just gimme a screenshot
18:53 Voli: what would u do
18:53 Shiirn:
http://puu.sh/vDNAQ/6b0c41b483.png18:53 Shiirn: vs
18:53 Shiirn:
http://puu.sh/vDNBm/8268939fe3.png18:53 Shiirn: completely changing the direction of the flow
18:53 Shiirn: not being subtle and shit
18:53 Shiirn: subtlety is to jerk off modders
18:53 Shiirn: u wanna jerk off players
18:53 Shiirn: make them FEEL the change
18:54 Shiirn: 00:05:401 (2,3) - like this does that good
18:54 Voli: ya i feel the one u pointed out is a really sublt ehcnage tho
18:54 Voli: even if its a new measure
18:54 Voli: i dont feel it requires that much emphasis lol
18:54 Shiirn: yeah it doesn't
18:54 Shiirn: but the thing is
18:55 Shiirn: pitch is given way too much relevance with how you're mapping it
18:55 Shiirn: when it's all just a congealed mass of 1/2 tones to players
18:55 Shiirn: yes, they hear the pitch differences
18:55 Shiirn: but what they NOTICE are the measures and patterns
18:55 Voli: coz that part only has one instrument :thinking:
18:55 Voli: well
18:55 Voli: i'll make it a bit more impactful
18:55 Shiirn: my personal experience is telling me to tell you that measures and patterns are more important to lean on compared to pitch relevance
18:56 Shiirn: pitch relevance and stuff is nice and all but it's mostly for modders to circlejerk over how clever they are
18:56 Shiirn: anyway
18:56 Shiirn: 00:09:743 (1,2,3) - you're right that 2 should be far seperate from 1 as it's starting a new measure offbeat rather than onbeat,
18:56 Voli: idk idc about that stuff i just map to what i feel goes well with the music xd
18:57 Shiirn: the thing is
18:57 Shiirn: what you feel goes well isn't necessarily as refined as it can get
18:57 Shiirn: "eh feels fine" is good
18:57 Shiirn: but striving for mediocrity isn't what i want people to do
18:57 Shiirn: anyway
18:57 Shiirn: but 00:09:941 (2,3) - comparing this to 00:10:138 (3,4) - , you're actually missing the angle/movement changes
18:58 Voli: i mean i dont care about
https://voli.s-ul.eu/XRNzs5Ud.png18:58 Shiirn: 3->4 has the player go backwards
18:58 Shiirn: 2-3 is just..."normal"
18:58 Shiirn: even though 2 is the same tone as 00:10:335 - , which "starts" the backwards movement
18:59 Voli: you have to take slider leniency in account tho with these patterns
18:59 Voli: but
18:59 Voli: i see your point
18:59 Shiirn: leniency is something that is a thing
18:59 Shiirn: but even with 1/4 sliders that act as just more edgy circles
18:59 Voli: you wont follow the entire slider 3 and then move all the way backwards again
18:59 Shiirn: the movement of the sliderball DOES impact the player
18:59 Shiirn: visually, if not haptically
19:00 Voli: 00:10:138 (3) -
19:00 Voli: if i ctrl+g this
19:00 Shiirn: then it fucks up 3-4, 4-5, etc
19:00 Voli: it doesn't necessarily follow the same movement but i can see it working
19:00 Voli: what'd you do?
19:01 Shiirn: even as small as
http://puu.sh/vDO0e/3ad04655fb.png19:02 Shiirn: is enough to make it feel right
19:02 Shiirn: imo
19:02 Voli: 00:09:941 (2,3) - wait a SEC
19:02 Voli: this isnt the same sound tho
19:02 Voli: as 3 to 4
19:02 Voli: cuz 2 isn't as strong
19:02 Voli: hm that can work
19:03 Voli: i did that
19:03 Shiirn: you do better when the music actually starts
19:04 Shiirn: to be fair
19:04 Shiirn: 00:39:546 (1) - running out of space is no excuse for a clipped slider though, i'd presonally try to make this actually one cohesive curve somehow
19:04 Shiirn: the bend just doesn't make sense
19:04 Voli: :p
19:05 Voli: they are 2 vocals tho so there is actually a reason
19:05 Shiirn: 00:50:204 (6) - would make this a triple
19:06 Voli: tho that slider is kinda ugly coz ya i ran out of space
19:06 Shiirn: 00:55:829 (2,3) - any reason this isnt stacked cuz the stacking was kinda cool now its just like...not
19:06 Voli: ill change it
19:06 Shiirn: 00:58:098 (5) - would look cooler if it was symmetrical rather than a bent knee
19:06 Shiirn: 00:59:283 (4) - this one is fine cuz it's 3/4
19:06 Voli: hold up
19:06 Voli: 00:55:829 (2,3) -
19:06 Voli: dis is stacked?
19:06 Shiirn: it's "cut off" anywaay
19:06 Shiirn: no i mean
19:07 Shiirn: under the slider
19:07 Shiirn: ending
19:07 Voli: oh
19:07 Voli: because i don't see a reason to stop the momentum completely there
19:07 Voli: especially considering the SV there
19:07 Voli: it plays like shit
19:07 Shiirn: this is a case where slider leniency
19:07 Shiirn: does matter
19:07 Shiirn: because
19:07 Shiirn: people are killing their momentum by moving to 23 and staying there *anyway*
19:07 Shiirn: moving them underneath the ending doesn't change that
19:08 Voli: it does actually
19:08 Shiirn: wel lyeah
19:08 Voli: i had them underneath before
19:08 Shiirn: it makes it more obvious
19:08 Shiirn: but if you want to really have the "continue the momentum" thing
19:08 Shiirn: you should unstack 2,3 entirely and make them move out from the slider
19:08 Shiirn: 01:21:092 (2,3) - this too, straight line down with 1 would work
19:09 Shiirn:
https://puu.sh/vDOnV/7101e9f837.png19:09 Voli: what i meant is more like
19:09 Voli: when you make a movement through a slider with high sv
19:09 Voli: and you have to stop abruptly at the end of the slider
19:09 Voli: it feels jarring
19:10 Voli: to me, at least
19:10 Shiirn: but they're already "stopping abruptly"
19:10 Voli: your cursor always drift a bit further
19:10 Shiirn: just ...at a place after the slider's actual ending
19:10 Voli: yeah, but at least you get to sit out the slider :p
19:10 Shiirn: any player who plays01:20:796 (1,2,3) -
19:10 Shiirn: is going to have their cursor on top of 2
19:10 Shiirn: 01:20:993 - at or before this point
19:11 Shiirn: they've "already stopped" by this point
19:11 Shiirn: just at an atribtrary spot after the slider rather than underneath it
19:11 Voli: ya exactly
19:11 Voli: i actually had them the way you proposed
19:11 Voli: right underneath
19:11 Shiirn: so if you want to at least visually make it feel like there's still movement, unstack them and move them a bit
19:11 Voli: and i saw ppl getting confused because the momentum suddenly stops at the end of the slider
19:11 Shiirn: if you don't care about that, stack them underneath
19:11 Voli: instead of allowing a bit of movement
19:11 Shiirn: as it is right now
19:11 Shiirn: it has the cons of both with none of the pros
19:12 Voli: if i were to move them apart
19:12 Voli: it'd need to be according to the slider's speed
19:12 Voli: otherwise slowing down the movement randomly would make no sense
19:12 Shiirn: not saying space them
19:12 Voli: so it'd end up
19:12 Voli:
https://voli.s-ul.eu/MSG4nstK.png19:12 Shiirn: sometimes visual cues are more important than physical ones
19:13 Shiirn: what i screenshotted works fine visually
19:13 Voli: i dont rly wanna change these patterns tho, i believe them to work best in their current state
19:13 Voli: drums and vocals are separated and theres a bit of movement allowed
19:14 Shiirn: eh
19:14 Shiirn: your choice
19:14 Shiirn: i'm just here to talk, not to enforce
19:14 Shiirn: i ain' no bn
19:14 Voli: xdd
19:15 Shiirn: 02:05:993 (4,5,6,7) - every other time this was 3 sliders
19:15 Shiirn: why partly triple
19:15 Voli: which other instance
19:16 Shiirn: uh hm its really early
19:16 Shiirn: but generally you took the metallic snare and make 1/4 sliders out of it
19:17 Voli: its like
19:17 Shiirn: like 00:50:204 (6) - 00:28:098 (5,6) - 00:31:256 (6,7,8) - 00:34:414 (4,5) -
19:17 Shiirn: etc
19:17 Voli: in a completely different context tho
19:17 Shiirn: and it
19:17 Shiirn: 's all the same noise
19:17 Shiirn: it just feels weird that it's a triple and not either 3 sliders or a bunch of circles
19:18 Voli: i could make them 3 sliders ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
19:18 Shiirn: you could
19:18 Shiirn: just, again, my commentary
19:19 Voli: i think i did this cuz i felt there wasn't a lot of movement needed with the hold vocal
19:19 Voli: but its not that consistent no
19:19 Shiirn: yeah glancing over the rest it's mostly the same
19:19 Shiirn: sonic songs make me :gag:
19:19 Voli: why tho
19:19 Voli: sonic has good ost
19:19 Voli:
19:20 Shiirn: sure it does
19:20 Shiirn: but not for mapping so much
19:20 Shiirn: also gonna post