This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on Monday, September 01, 2008 at 6:30:51 PM

Artist: Hideki Naganuma
Title: Vela-Nova
BPM: 138
Filesize: 6479kb
Play Time: 02:54
Difficulties Available:

1. Easy (1.75 stars, 145 notes)
2. Normal (4.19 stars, 300 notes)

Download: Hideki Naganuma - Vela-Nova
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
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Here's a first attempt at a beat map from someone who discovered this lovely program just recently. The background is just some silly fan art I did a long time ago.

Comments/criticism welcome. In particular, I'd like to know if the placements are appropriate for the difficulty and are fun before I consider this "done." I may try another difficulty later if I find the time.

Latest Edit: Slight overhaul of easy based on suggestions from Sinistro and Silvah. Also tweaked a few spinners on normal.

agh you beat me to it. this is all pretty cool i like normal alot and was wondering if your going to make a higher difficulty. if not may i?

Ah, sorry, didn't mean to steal your thunder emj. I've just always loved this song in particular.

emj wrote:

...wondering if your going to make a higher difficulty. if not may i?

I have no problems with it. Like I said, I'm not so great a player... yet. So I don't know what plays well at harder difficulties. But I'd like to see what you can do with it.

catSnap wrote:

EDIT: Edited the beatmap slightly to make more use of distance snap. It's not everywhere, but I used it wherever I thought it might work.

Distance snapping should be used about everywhere possible. The only time when you shouldn't use it is when you can't use it. (Probably except for a few special instances.) With this being your first map, I hope it's okay to, uh, say some things that may sound condescending... I mean, don't know if you know this, but it helps: if you hold ALT in the editor, Beat snap divisor becomes Distance spacing and you can use the wheel on a mouse or move the slider to change the spacing. You can tell that the distance spacing between your first two notes is 0.5x whereas the spacing between the second and third notes is between 0.6x and 0.7x. In areas of a map that sound the same speed, you should use the same distance spacing. What I do, and what I believe to be a good thing to do (because I haven't been told otherwise)... is to change the grid level to the smallest grid (View > Grid Level > 3) and keep Grid Snap and Distance Snap on. This way, you get as precise a distance snap as you can get while still making sure the circles look pretty (and by that I mean.. it's harder to place things correctly, like in straight lines, without grid snapping).

catSnap wrote:

At this point, I'm not an incredible osu! player so I think this is as hard as I can do and still be able to test it myself.

One shouldn't need to be able to pass a file to know if it's good or not. I mean, you should be able to step a harder difficulty for the song even if you can't do well at it. You could always get someone who is really good to test a hard map if you thought that would help. And I think the file would need another difficulty, anyway, if you want it to be ranked.

catSnap wrote:

EDIT: Went over easy with a fine tooth comb, resizing sliders slightly and compromising on those stupidly long combos by breaking them up a bit.

Didn't see how long the combos originally were, but it's always a good thing to keep them lower. (Don't know if you know this, again, and sorry if you do): you can only get Katu (the 100 with the symbol) and Geki (the 300) at the end of a combo. A Geki recovers more energy than anything, so it's nice to have more, shorter combos for more energy. Combos should be kept below 13 or so... on easier difficulties. On hard difficulties, longer combos are more tolerable because the file is supposed to be harder (and not being able to recover as much energy makes it harder.) So, yeah, it was a good idea to make the combos shorter.

So, uh... Fix the beat spacing, and I can look at the file again and look in to other things... And a third difficulty wouldn't be a bad addition.
Yeah, sorry if you already knew what I said, but.. if you didn't, it should help... There's also probably quite a bit I didn't say, but, uh... I can say more later.
Also, the coloring on that fan art is pretty nice, though.

Hey Silvuh, thank you very much for looking at my map, and thanks for catching the discrepancy with distance snap. That was entirely unintentional! I used a spacing of 0.5x on my easy map, and when I crossed over to normal, changed it to 0.7x after I had already started placing some beats. I thought I went back and changed them after that, but looks like I missed a few.

Silvuh wrote:

Distance snapping should be used about everywhere possible. The only time when you shouldn't use it is when you can't use it. (Probably except for a few special instances.)

This is good advice, and I basically knew it by the time you said it. I had already fixed some of those places without distance snap I was talking about in the part you quoted from me, but going over them again, I missed a heckuva lot. So I went through just now and checked both difficulties very carefully to make sure distance snap is used throughout. Hopefully I didn't forget anything this time.

Silvuh wrote:

One shouldn't need to be able to pass a file to know if it's good or not. I mean, you should be able to step a harder difficulty for the song even if you can't do well at it. You could always get someone who is really good to test a hard map if you thought that would help.

You're probably right about this, and if I really wanted to, I could probably just check it with the half-time mod now that I think about it.

Silvuh wrote:

And I think the file would need another difficulty, anyway, if you want it to be ranked.

I'm not so sure about this. There are quite a few ranked maps with only 2 difficulties. Still, another difficulty or two would probably help round it out. However, classes have started for me so I have less time to work on this, and since emj already asked to make a harder difficulty I'd like to see how his looks first.

Thanks again for your input! The distance snap issues have been fixed at least (I hope). Feel free to take another look if you have the time and offer any further suggestions.

Well, a lot of the maps with only two difficulties that are ranked tend to be just like "Normal, Obligatory-Insane-Difficulty". And after testing this, another difficulty shouldn't be too much to ask. :3

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

Eep, totally forgot to mention that I only really looked at the Normal difficulty. I believe there's still some beat spacing issues... I'll look at Easy first, this time.
You said you're using 0.5x in easy... so I'll check the spacing by putting the snaps on and seeing if the circles can remain in the same spot. It feels odd finding all these little spacing things.. I mean, you said you fixed it, so it makes me feel like I'm wrong, haha. And seeing the mod there only finding that one thing to fix, it makes me feel like a prick for mentioning all these little beat spacing things... But, uh.. Yeah, maybe just try some of these things for yourself and see if it happens the same way for you. I mean, see if the notes should be moved some...

Oh, one quick note. When I say "8th" or "16th", I'm not talking about in terms of the Beat Snap Divisor. When the beat snap divisor is on 1/4, there are 16ths on the time line. Sorry, this is just what I'm more used to. I think, like, everyone else here, though, speaks in terms of the divisor.

00:05:82. Right at the beginning, the 2 should probably be a little farther from the 1 and 3. Farther by, like, one small grid square.
00:07:23. The 4 is too far from the 3. The slider can't be moved closer, though, because it fits the whole field. If you don't want to change the slider shape, it would be better to move the first 3 notes closer to the first slider there. The 3 and should only be about 22 small grid spaces away: six centimeters instead of the ten-or-so centimeters away it is now.
00:12:45. I think the next group of three is too close to the slider. When I click on it and move the cursor a bit, it jumps about three centimeters in that direction. And again, the 2 is a tad too close to the 1 and 3.
00:14:84. The 1 should to be a bit closer to the last group of three. The 2 should be a bit closer to the 1. The 3 should be a bit closer to the 2. The 3 and 4 are spaced okay.
00:21:14. About the slider here... I was going to say that... Well, uh.

A pattern like that would be more "correct" with the music, but then it wouldn't be correct on the repeat... So, I mean, I just wanted to say that it's nice when the slider fits the music... But, ... It's fine here, I suppose, because it's precise but not accurate. I mean, because it's symmetrical, it has the same inconsistencies both times through.
00:26:69. Think the 2 should be a tad farther away again.
00:33:32. The 1 is too close to the end of the last slider, and the 2 should be moved a bit again.
00:35:06. The slider should end at the 8th before where it does on that sound it passes over. Like how they were done on Normal. Same goes for the next slider.
00:44:73. Yes, as Sinistro mentioned, the slider should be moved forward a 16th. The sound starts on the 8th there, not the 16th. The slider should end on the same 4th. Also, how the slider is now, it should be moved a bit farther from the previous slider.
00:46:36. This 1 here is much too close to the last slider. And in this combo, the 2 should be a bit farther from the 1 and the slider on 3 should be a tad farther from the 2.
00:48:32. The slider beginning the combo here should be a bit closer to the slider before it.
00:49:84. The 1 is a tad too far from the last slider, the 2 is a bit too far from the 1, and the 3 is a little too close to the 2.
00:51:79. Slider starting here should be one grid square farther from the slider before it.
00:53:32. Same as last time. The 1 should be closer, the 2 should be closer, and the 3 should be farther.
00:55:38. Slider is too far from the last one.
00:56:58. The 1 should be closer to the previous slider.
00:57:34. First of all, the slider is a bit to far from the last circle. Second, this slider here doesn't have a repeat, so, in my opinion, the only reason to not fit it to the music would be to keep the slider easy enough for the difficulty or just to have look nicer or something. When I make musically-accurate sliders, I always put bookmarks at points on the time line where I need to change direction or something to make it easier. Here's the slider I would have put here:

On a harder difficulty, though... Not all the notes of the sound there continue to the next note, so I would have put breaks in the slider. Would be three shorter sliders instead of one long one.

Not sure if it's the right thing to do, but it's what I would have done on a harder difficulty. Just saying.
00:58:75. The slider starting here should be moved closer to the previous one.
01:00:06. 1 here should be closer to the last slider... But if you moved it any closer, it would be almost under the slider, you may want to move it to the other side of the slider before it. And the 2 in this combo is too far from the 1, and the 3 is a tad too far from the 2.
01:02:23. Slider starting here should be closer to the end of the slider before it.
01:03:53. In this combo, the 1 should be closer to the slider before it and the slider after it should be closer to the 1. Also, note the thing about musically-accurate sliders, here. The shell twirl pattern thing does look nice, though.
01:05:57. This slider should be closer to the end of the previous slider.
.... If you don't mind, I'm going to stop mentioning all the little beat spacing issues. They're just little things scattered all around that you can probably find yourself from looking through the file again. I should just be mentioning the more important things like sliders that aren't where they should be or something... Oh, and beat spacing issues like the one below:
01:15:06–01:16:58. The two combos should be closer together. I mean, you spaced the notes all equally, but the last note of the first combo and and the first note of the second combo should be closer.
01:20:27. The spinny noise in the song, which I believe you're putting the spinner to, changes pitch here, so there should be a second slider starting here.
01:23:75. What does this slider end on? I think it should either end at 01:24:40 (an 8th earlier) where the burst sound is or at 01:25:27 where that melody the slider starts at ends. I suggest ending this slider and the slider after it an 8th earlier, though.
01:26:79. A circle here wouldn't hurt. That's where another one of those burst sound things are, and a circle there isn't any harder than other parts of the map, so... I don't see why not.
01:27:23. This slider here... sounds like it goes to nothing. I mean, there's no burst sound during the slider, so you could end it there just to be consistent... I'm guessing you put a slider there because it has that same melody that starts where the other sliders start. But this time, you may want to continue the slider to the end of the melody, not put a slider there at all (and just have it be a hit circle).
01:30:71–01:43:21. The four long sliders here appear to have no musical relevance. I mean, they bend at every 4th, but what not-background sound here actually sounds on every 4th? Also, what are these sliders ending on? I suggest fitting these long sliders to the bass. But with the notes between the sliders, the sliders as they are now cut in the middle of the repeat of the bass. So maybe end the sliders at the 4th before they do now where the first note of the repeating bass line is.
01:47:66. A circle to the burst sound thing here would be nice.
02:47:23. A second spinner starting here like before would be better, in my opinion.
02:52:45, 02:54:19. Spinners should start here, too. It's more musically accurate, and long spinners are tiring, anyway.

Aaand that's it for Easy! Eh... Maybe... maybe, like, what I found to be an issue.. other people wouldn't find to be an issue. Or something, I don't know. And I can look at Normal later...

catSnap wrote:

However, classes have started for me so I have less time to work on this, and since emj already asked to make a harder difficulty I'd like to see how his looks first.

Aaah, right, classes. Are you in college? I mean, that's what I think when you say "classes" instead of "school". Anyway, that's fine. No need to work on it if you don't have the time or if you don't want to. Can't say we're rushing you; just saying what to fix when you can. Oh, I do have quite a bit of time ('cause I don't get a lot of homework), so I could make a hard file for this, too. That is, if you wanted to compare with emj's if he makes one... Or something.

Now to reply to Sinistro's post, because he posted while I was working on this post...

Sinistro wrote:

Finally, while it's true that spacing is very important, don't feel like you're chained to Distance Snap (otherwise there wouldn't be an option to turn it off). Having a few spacing "inconstencies" can sometimes make a beatmap more creative or challenging, and it's of course more acceptable on harder difficulties. Generally the patterns should remain reasonably intuitive, ie they don't trick the player into clicking too soon or too late.

I think it's odd how you say inconsistencies can make a file more creative or challenging, but then say that the patterns shouldn't trick the player... How do you have an inconsistency issue that doesn't trick the player? The only way I could think to answer that question would be where the sounds are so far apart that little spacing issues don't really make that big of a difference, but then again, that wouldn't be creative or challenging. Could you show an example of what you mean? I mean, I know what you mean, but I don't know how it ... works.

I've updated easy based on some of your suggestions Silvuh, and of course the timing issue Sinistro spotted. Thanks for catching that! I do want to mention that with the 0.5x snap, a couple of the places Silvuh suggested were off in terms of spacing were considered by the distance snap to be acceptable both where I originally placed the beats, and where you suggested I put them. However, in most cases the suggestions made more sense to me so I went ahead and changed them. That's one reason not to just rely on that thing.

The bit about the 'musically accurate sliders' was something I never even considered before, and I found it very helpful. Thanks!

And yes, I am in college. Today I have the day off though, so if you have any further things to add, now's the time, hehe.

catSnap wrote:

I do want to mention that with the 0.5x snap, a couple of the places Silva suggested were off in terms of spacing were considered by the distance snap to be acceptable both where I originally placed the beats, and where you suggested I put them.

Huh... That's weird. I would only note the spacing issue if I couldn't get the circle in the original spot with the snap at 0.5x. So... Something. Weird.

Aaanyway, ehehe, there's a few things I missed in Easy.

But first of all, those 2s I said should be a little farther from the 1 and 3... Uh, I think they're a tad too far now. With the distance snapping at 0.5x, I wasn't able to place a circle where it used to be or where they are now. They're inbetween... Said that they should be one more small grid square down, not four like they are now. This is what I had in mind:

The pattern may be acceptable with the circles a little closer or farther, I don't know. But that's where distance snapping places the circle, so that is what's probably more right.
00:38:10. I mentioned two places where a circle should be placed just like here, but forgot to mention this spot. So a circle should go here for consistency.
Can't think of anything else in Easy that isn't what might be a tiny little beat spacing issue.

Normal time...
Watched through it at 100%, and the only thing I thought worth mention was how at 2:41:58, the beat start at the end of the melody thing, so I think it would be better to get rid of those 1 and 2 right after the break and just start with the burst sound thingies.
Watching back through at 50%...
This is tough. Repeating sliders annoy me... I mean, because they can't do everything. For instance, the first repeating slider right at the beginning... There's actually no note at the other end of the slider. The melody goes back down after you're already going on a repeat. So the up and down parts of the bass there aren't the same length, but because it's a repeated slider, the slider has to be the same length... And because it's a repeating slider, it can't finish off the last down because then the slider would end at where another beat has to start.
There are quite a few instances where you have a slider or a repeated slider end where the next part starts, so that works okay, though.. Maybe you should go ahead and put the last repeat on that slider at the beginning and have the end of the slider start the next part right after? I mean, just because there are other parts where you have the end of the slider doing that, it's ... consistency stuff.

There are probably some little beat spacing issues... maybe a few not-as-little issues... The only one that jumped out at me was 02:02:88 where the 2 needs to be closer to the 1. Because it's evenly spaced between the 1, 2 and 3 now, but the 1 and 2 are closer together in the timeline.

I'm glad I was able to help with stuff, and I hope I can help more in the future. Good luck with your classes when they start back up!

I'm going to look over your newer suggestions when I get the chance Silvuh, but looking at that picture you just posted, I think I'm using a much larger grid size than you, which may be causing some of the discrepancies you and I are experiencing.

I have my grid level for both maps set to 1 or 'medium', while you seem to have a level of 3.

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